I’m seeking advice from anyone who uses a desktop publishing program. I need software that can combine files from many different sources, including CAD, Word/Excel, PDF, and digital pictures. I need to create user’s manuals for our product in a format that can be easily e-mailed, printed, and put onto CD-Rom (and maybe online in the future). Much of the software I am finding is more graphics-oriented, I don’t need to create fancy graphics, (like brochures) I need something more text friendly, but also able to insert tables and pictures. I have only a little experience in this kind of software (specifically QuarkXPress), but I don’t think that is what I am looking for. So far I am looking into Corel Ventura and Adobe Framemaker. Anyone use one of these? Have any input? Any advice is greatly appreciated!
I’d recommend Adobe InDesign. If you’re comfortable with Quark, you’ll be able to pick up InDesign fairly quickly. Because it’s Adobe, it works well with PDF files. You can also place .psd and .ai files natively so you don’t have to save a copy without layers for placing, as with Quark.
You’re easiest route to placing Word and Excel files is to create PDFs of them and place the PDF into your layout program.
Your final product from InDesign can then be exported as a PDF (a function native to InDesign), which is easily e-mailed, printed or burned to CD.
What he said. InDesign is best.
Whatever you do, don’t let anyone sell you Framemaker.
Yes, I looked at InDesign also, but it seems it is more for ads, brochures, things with lots of graphics. FrameMaker specifically says it is good for tech writers and making books and manuals, or “text-heavy” things. Is PDFing everything the only way to get different kinds of files together?
skutir, why are you so against FrameMaker? What version did/do you use?
Is InDesign the more commonly used program? Have you heard anything about Corel?
InDesign is the first, and only real, competition for Quark.
Before you buy a program that just meets your current needs, keep in mind that you may need to do an ad or borchure in the future. If you already have a tool that will do what you need now, as well as handle eventualities, then that’s a better bargain.
InDesign handles graphics well, but it also handles text easily with both Paragraph and Character style sheets. It is important to use style sheets when you’re putting together a document more than 1 page long.
One of the monthly duties I have at work is to put together a monthly sales catalog. I take data from Excel spreadsheets and, using the style sheets, convert it to the necessary format easily. It’s quite text-heavy and InDesign handles it effortlessly.
Thanks, Homebrew, that’s exactly the kind of info I need. What I have now is manuals done in Word with Excel tables, and Draw diagrams, and everytime I want to send out a manual to a customer I have to include CAD drawings and spec’s in Excel, and sometimes digital pictures, and I end up printing out each section separately, then manually putting it all together and copying it. I want to create one document that can handle it all that I can revise as necessary, updating pictures, tables, etc. easily, but I want to pull info from my existing manuals so I don’t have to start over.
I also want to be able to e-mail it to the customer in an easy to understand format that almost everyone can use (PDF seems to be the best option here), or burn them a CD.
Is this something that InDesign could do? What originally attracted me to FrameMaker and not InDesign was FrameMaker’s ability to track revisions (important for ISO). When I go to Adobe’s website and look at my requirements (what I want the software to do) it seems to keep pointing me towards FrameMaker, but I have heard it can be hard to learn, and if InDesign is like Quark then I already have an advantage there (I don’t currently have Quark, it was something I played around with at a previous job).
Thanks for all your help.
I should add that my company is willing to train me in new software, so it’s not like I’m completely on my own here.
I can’t make any positive recommendations, but I can warn you away from Quark. It’s worth learning because it’s fairly popular, but it’s still a very poorly programmed application. Clunky interface and unstable as all get out. If you want a good laugh, stop by Quark’s tech forums and read some of the posts.
FrameMaker expert here. If you need to track revisions, do document comparisons, use conditional text, Frame’s the way to go.
Granted, it can be difficult to learn. If the styles are already set up for you, it’s a cinch, but if you’re designing new styles (as I did when I revamped the “look” of our company’s manuals), then you have to get into the nitty-gritty. There are also a lot of cool tricks you can use to get around things like boilerplate graphics (which they go on about in the Frame manual) so you have instant icons with headings, a nice em space, then you can type your text. Involves autonumbering and playing with fonts, but that’s a discussion for another day. 
I have used Ventura Publisher through several owners now (owners of Ventura Publisher, that is). When I first used it, back in ver 2, I think, it was Xerox Ventura Publisher.
I cannot compare it to programs like Framemaker or InDesign, as I have never used them. I used PageMaker a bit and liked Ventura’s “long form” features better, but it was many years ago that I used Pagemaker and these comparisons may no longer be accurate.
Ventura Publisher was supposedly better for long documents, such as user manuals, novels, etc. and PageMaker better for single page layouts. I felt that Ventura was just as good for short layouts (you can adjust the font for any individual characters or paragraphs just as easily as in PageMaker), but had excellent long form characteristics, in paragraph styles and character styles.
The newer versions have made it easier to manipulate indivual blocks of text, which I actually don’t like, because the other way forced you to use the styles more, which is better in the long run when you have to make changes.
The styles allow you to change anything about the text, including font, size, alignment, spacing (above or below or line height), color, tabs, rotation, and a bunch more throughout the entire document by making the change once to the syle.
It allows specific and accurate spacing and placement of text and graphics, and has specific and highly adjustable controls for such things as headers and footer (and automatically placing the chapter name and page number in them, for example) lines and rules, tables of contents, indexes, footnotes, etc.
Again, I can’t speak as to whether it does better or worse in these matters than the other products people have advocated here, because I’ve not used them, but I can tell you that Ventura Publisher works well.
If you have any questions as to whether it can perform certain tasks or how simple/complicated it is to do certain things, I can try to answer those questions for you.
I have used Ventura Publisher through several owners now (owners of Ventura Publisher, that is). When I first used it, back in ver 2, I think, it was Xerox Ventura Publisher.
I cannot compare it to programs like Framemaker or InDesign, as I have never used them. I used PageMaker a bit and liked Ventura’s “long form” features better, but it was many years ago that I used Pagemaker and these comparisons may no longer be accurate.
Ventura Publisher was supposedly better for long documents, such as user manuals, novels, etc. and PageMaker better for single page layouts. I felt that Ventura was just as good for short layouts (you can adjust the font for any individual characters or paragraphs just as easily as in PageMaker), but had excellent long form characteristics, in paragraph styles and character styles.
The newer versions have made it easier to manipulate indivual blocks of text, which I actually don’t like, because the other way forced you to use the styles more, which is better in the long run when you have to make changes.
The styles allow you to change anything about the text, including font, size, alignment, spacing (above or below or line height), color, tabs, rotation, and a bunch more throughout the entire document by making the change once to the syle.
It allows specific and accurate spacing and placement of text and graphics, and has specific and highly adjustable controls for such things as headers and footer (and automatically placing the chapter name and page number in them, for example) lines and rules, tables of contents, indexes, footnotes, etc.
Again, I can’t speak as to whether it does better or worse in these matters than the other products people have advocated here, because I’ve not used them, but I can tell you that Ventura Publisher works well.
If you have any questions as to whether it can perform certain tasks or how simple/complicated it is to do certain things, I can try to answer those questions for you.
I have used Ventura Publisher through several owners now (owners of Ventura Publisher, that is). When I first used it, back in ver 2, I think, it was Xerox Ventura Publisher.
I cannot compare it to programs like Framemaker or InDesign, as I have never used them. I used PageMaker a bit and liked Ventura’s “long form” features better, but it was many years ago that I used Pagemaker and these comparisons may no longer be accurate.
Ventura Publisher was supposedly better for long documents, such as user manuals, novels, etc. and PageMaker better for single page layouts. I felt that Ventura was just as good for short layouts (you can adjust the font for any individual characters or paragraphs just as easily as in PageMaker), but had excellent long form characteristics, in paragraph styles and character styles.
The newer versions have made it easier to manipulate indivual blocks of text, which I actually don’t like, because the other way forced you to use the styles more, which is better in the long run when you have to make changes.
The styles allow you to change anything about the text, including font, size, alignment, spacing (above or below or line height), color, tabs, rotation, and a bunch more throughout the entire document by making the change once to the syle.
It allows specific and accurate spacing and placement of text and graphics, and has specific and highly adjustable controls for such things as headers and footer (and automatically placing the chapter name and page number in them, for example) lines and rules, tables of contents, indexes, footnotes, etc.
Again, I can’t speak as to whether it does better or worse in these matters than the other products people have advocated here, because I’ve not used them, but I can tell you that Ventura Publisher works well.
If you have any questions as to whether it can perform certain tasks or how simple/complicated it is to do certain things, I can try to answer those questions for you.
Whatever you do, don’t use PageMangler… I mean PageMaker.
richardb, and scott evil, thanks for your help. I am downloading the trial version of FrameMaker now, but I doubt I will be able to do much with it yet, not being trained for it. I want to find a rep. who will come here and show me a demo, and answer some questions, but I can’t find anyone who does that for this program (must not cost enough). Any way, maybe one/both of you can answer some questions for me. Specifically, what I need to do is create manuals for Environmental Test Chambers. Right now I have the text for them in Word, with some digital pictures / Excel tables thrown in. When I create a manual, I also need to include CAD drawings that I currently have to print out separately, then manually put the whole thing together, bind and send to the customer. I want to take all these documents and make them one format, or at least tie them all together so I can just hit print and get a coherent book, and also e-mail them or burn a CD. Different models need different drawings, so I need to be able to insert / remove the CAD drawings quickly and easily, and also create new rev’s of the manual when we change something (often). Right now if I want to e-mail a drawing to a customer I PDF it first, would I have to change all my CAD drawings to PDF before I could include them in the manual, or will any program read / convert straight from CAD?
I guess what I need is a software equivalent of me printing out different pages, then manually putting them in order. What I want is saved “sections”, or chapters, I guess, that I can pick and choose from to quickly put them together for each model we send, along with drawings and part lists done in Excel, and then create a table of contents / index that makes sense. Some manuals for our standard line would not change very often, others I would need to customize every time I make one. Does any of this make sense?
Any input is helpful, you guys are really giving me the only first-hand knowledge I have.
richardb, and scott evil, thanks for your help. I am downloading the trial version of FrameMaker now, but I doubt I will be able to do much with it yet, not being trained for it. I want to find a rep. who will come here and show me a demo, and answer some questions, but I can’t find anyone who does that for this program (must not cost enough). Any way, maybe one/both of you can answer some questions for me. Specifically, what I need to do is create manuals for Environmental Test Chambers. Right now I have the text for them in Word, with some digital pictures / Excel tables thrown in. When I create a manual, I also need to include CAD drawings that I currently have to print out separately, then manually put the whole thing together, bind and send to the customer. I want to take all these documents and make them one format, or at least tie them all together so I can just hit print and get a coherent book, and also e-mail them or burn a CD. Different models need different drawings, so I need to be able to insert / remove the CAD drawings quickly and easily, and also create new rev’s of the manual when we change something (often). Right now if I want to e-mail a drawing to a customer I PDF it first, would I have to change all my CAD drawings to PDF before I could include them in the manual, or will any program read / convert straight from CAD?
I guess what I need is a software equivalent of me printing out different pages, then manually putting them in order. What I want is saved “sections”, or chapters, I guess, that I can pick and choose from to quickly put them together for each model we send, along with drawings and part lists done in Excel, and then create a table of contents / index that makes sense. Some manuals for our standard line would not change very often, others I would need to customize every time I make one. Does any of this make sense?
Any input is helpful, you guys are really giving me the only first-hand knowledge I have.
Homebrew, I don’t think PageMaker will do what I want anyway. I also downloaded the trial version of InDesign, but am not having much luck with it, probably b/c I don’t know what I am doing with it. I think my boss doesn’t realize what this is all going to involve, he just told me to find software that can do this, and I could get trained, by which I think he means, take a class or online training session. I am starting to get the feeling I need to go back to school and become a graphic designer. Sorry for the mini-rant, I am just getting frustrated with him dumping responsibilites on me that are not really my job and that I am not qualified for. Not that I mind learning new things, in fact this is something I am interested in, but I really don’t know anything about this software and I don’t want to recommend a purchase, go to class, and then discover I can’t do what I want with it.
You guys are helping me out a lot with this, thanks. I didn’t know if anyone would even respond to this thread, it’s not the most exciting one on this board:)
OK… you are rambling a bit, but let’s see if we can try to answer you, about Ventura Publisher at least.
I don’t do the same type of work you do, so I don’t typically use many of the features that you would need. That being said, I think Ventura Publisher would do what you want.
Text and Pictures could easily be added in or removed or moved or resized. I am not familiar with CAD programs, so I opened VP and clicked on Help and looked at what graphic file formats it can import. The answer:
3D Model (3DMF/VRML)
Adobe Illustrator (AI)
Adobe Photoshop (PSD)
Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF)
Adobe Placed PDF Page (PDF)
AutoCAD (DXF)
AutoCAD Drawing (DWG)
CALS Compressed Bitmap (CAL)
CompuServe Bitmap (GIF)
Computer Graphics Metafile (CGM)
Corel CMX Compressed (CPX)
Corel PHOTO-PAINT 6 (CPT)
Corel PHOTO-PAINT 7 and 8 (CPT)
Corel Presentation Exchange (CMX)
Corel WordPerfect Graphic (WPG)
CorelDRAW (CDR)
CorelDRAW Compressed (CDX)
Desktop Color Separation (DCS)
Encapsulated PostScript (EPS)
Enhanced Windows Metafile (EMF)
Frame Vector Metafile (FMV)
GEM File (GEM)
GEM Paint File (IMG)
HPGL Plotter File (PLT)
IBM PIF (PF)
JPEG Bitmap (JPG)
Kodak FlashPix Image (FPX)
Kodak Photo CD Image (PCD)
Lotus Pic (PIC)
Macintosh PICT (PCT)
MACPaint Bitmap (MAC)
MET MetaFile (MET)
Micrografx 2.x, 3.x (DRW)
Micrografx Designer 6.0 (DSF)
NAP MetaFile (NAP)
OS/2 Bitmap (BMP)
PaintBrush (PCX)
Picture Publisher 4.0 (PP4)
Picture Publisher 5.0 (PP5)
Portable Network Graphics (PNG)
PostScript Interpreted (PS, PRN, and EPS)
SCITEX CT Bitmap (SCT)
Targa Bitmap (TGA)
TIFF Bitmap (TIF)
Wavelet Compressed Bitmap (WI)
Windows 3.x/NT Cursor Resource (CUR)
Windows 3.x/NT Bitmap Resource (EXE)
Windows 3.x/NT Icon Resource (ICO)
Windows Bitmap (BMP)
Windows Metafile (WMF)
Autocad is included, but if your CAD program is not Autocad, it would have to be able to save the file in one of the above formats for you to be able to include it in your Ventura Publisher document.
The problem I would forsee would be that of giving it to your clients. Giving them a printed copy is no problem, that’s what this program does: allows you to format a document or manual, etc., for printing.
Providing it to them electronically, however, via eMail or CD ROM is a different matter altogether.
You cannot just give them the VP file, unless they also have Ventura Publisher. Unlike Word documents, where you can give the file to anyone and they would be able to open it and read it because they have Word (or a program like WordPerfect which can also read Word formatted files), no one has a program that can open and read Ventura Publisher files unless they actually have a copy of Ventura Publisher.
I don’t know how to convert a Ventura Publisher document into a PDF file. That doesn’t mean it can’t be done, I just don’t know if it can be or not or how you would do it. I suppose you’d need a full copy of Adobe Acrobat for that.
Ventura Publisher, however, does come with it’s own alternative to PDF files: It’s called Corel Batista.
Actually, looking now at options inside Ventura Publisher (which I never use, so forgive me for not being familiar with this stuff), I see under the file menu that not only are there menu items for “Export Text” and “Export Picture,” but there is also an “Export Page as EPS” command (which I suppose would take any page in your document and make a PostScript file out of it), and another command called “Publish As…” which then gives you four choices to publish your document as HTML, CSS, Adobe Acrobat or Corel Batista. When I click on the Adobe Acrobat choice, I see it will create a file with a “PRN” extension. I don’t know what that is, but maybe it means something to you.
There is also a command to “Prepare for Service Bureau.”
I’ve never used this Corel Batista thing, but my understanding is that (like Acrobat) it creates a read only version of your document that anyone else at any other computer can read, perfectly and completely formatted exactly as you prepared. I think they only need the Batista reader (but maybe that is included automatically in the file, or is available for free). I’ve never tried this, so I can’t give you more details.
Scratch that:
Just went to Corel’s website, and the newest version of Ventura Publisher now has a “Publish to PDF” option. The features of the newest version are here
Maybe this is more info than you wanted, but good luck!
OK… you are rambling a bit, but let’s see if we can try to answer you, about Ventura Publisher at least.
I don’t do the same type of work you do, so I don’t typically use many of the features that you would need. That being said, I think Ventura Publisher would do what you want.
Text and Pictures could easily be added in or removed or moved or resized. I am not familiar with CAD programs, so I opened VP and clicked on Help and looked at what graphic file formats it can import. The answer:
3D Model (3DMF/VRML)
Adobe Illustrator (AI)
Adobe Photoshop (PSD)
Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF)
Adobe Placed PDF Page (PDF)
AutoCAD (DXF)
AutoCAD Drawing (DWG)
CALS Compressed Bitmap (CAL)
CompuServe Bitmap (GIF)
Computer Graphics Metafile (CGM)
Corel CMX Compressed (CPX)
Corel PHOTO-PAINT 6 (CPT)
Corel PHOTO-PAINT 7 and 8 (CPT)
Corel Presentation Exchange (CMX)
Corel WordPerfect Graphic (WPG)
CorelDRAW (CDR)
CorelDRAW Compressed (CDX)
Desktop Color Separation (DCS)
Encapsulated PostScript (EPS)
Enhanced Windows Metafile (EMF)
Frame Vector Metafile (FMV)
GEM File (GEM)
GEM Paint File (IMG)
HPGL Plotter File (PLT)
IBM PIF (PF)
JPEG Bitmap (JPG)
Kodak FlashPix Image (FPX)
Kodak Photo CD Image (PCD)
Lotus Pic (PIC)
Macintosh PICT (PCT)
MACPaint Bitmap (MAC)
MET MetaFile (MET)
Micrografx 2.x, 3.x (DRW)
Micrografx Designer 6.0 (DSF)
NAP MetaFile (NAP)
OS/2 Bitmap (BMP)
PaintBrush (PCX)
Picture Publisher 4.0 (PP4)
Picture Publisher 5.0 (PP5)
Portable Network Graphics (PNG)
PostScript Interpreted (PS, PRN, and EPS)
SCITEX CT Bitmap (SCT)
Targa Bitmap (TGA)
TIFF Bitmap (TIF)
Wavelet Compressed Bitmap (WI)
Windows 3.x/NT Cursor Resource (CUR)
Windows 3.x/NT Bitmap Resource (EXE)
Windows 3.x/NT Icon Resource (ICO)
Windows Bitmap (BMP)
Windows Metafile (WMF)
Autocad is included, but if your CAD program is not Autocad, it would have to be able to save the file in one of the above formats for you to be able to include it in your Ventura Publisher document.
The problem I would forsee would be that of giving it to your clients. Giving them a printed copy is no problem, that’s what this program does: allows you to format a document or manual, etc., for printing.
Providing it to them electronically, however, via eMail or CD ROM is a different matter altogether.
You cannot just give them the VP file, unless they also have Ventura Publisher. Unlike Word documents, where you can give the file to anyone and they would be able to open it and read it because they have Word (or a program like WordPerfect which can also read Word formatted files), no one has a program that can open and read Ventura Publisher files unless they actually have a copy of Ventura Publisher.
I don’t know how to convert a Ventura Publisher document into a PDF file. That doesn’t mean it can’t be done, I just don’t know if it can be or not or how you would do it. I suppose you’d need a full copy of Adobe Acrobat for that.
Ventura Publisher, however, does come with it’s own alternative to PDF files: It’s called Corel Batista.
Actually, looking now at options inside Ventura Publisher (which I never use, so forgive me for not being familiar with this stuff), I see under the file menu that not only are there menu items for “Export Text” and “Export Picture,” but there is also an “Export Page as EPS” command (which I suppose would take any page in your document and make a PostScript file out of it), and another command called “Publish As…” which then gives you four choices to publish your document as HTML, CSS, Adobe Acrobat or Corel Batista. When I click on the Adobe Acrobat choice, I see it will create a file with a “PRN” extension. I don’t know what that is, but maybe it means something to you.
There is also a command to “Prepare for Service Bureau.”
I’ve never used this Corel Batista thing, but my understanding is that (like Acrobat) it creates a read only version of your document that anyone else at any other computer can read, perfectly and completely formatted exactly as you prepared. I think they only need the Batista reader (but maybe that is included automatically in the file, or is available for free). I’ve never tried this, so I can’t give you more details.
Scratch that:
Just went to Corel’s website, and the newest version of Ventura Publisher now has a “Publish to PDF” option. The features of the newest version are here
Maybe this is more info than you wanted, but good luck!
You’re all rambling too much, with your double- and triple-posts.
Look, if you need different text/graphics for different models, we used Frame’s conditional text feature for our last release, where the bulk of the information was the same, but many sections, screen grabs, and graphics were dependent on the product.
I don’t know Ventura at all, except for the fact that our (large) company switched from Ventura to Frame a while back. There must have been a reason.
I guess I just like FrameMaker… 
Hi Velma
You’re spot-on when you say that the tool you’re looking for is more Frame than QuarkXPress. Amongst DTP packages and the like, you have three “families” of tools you can choose from:
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Tools suitable for layouts that vary dramatically from page to page (brochures, magazines, etc.). QuarkXPress is one such tool.
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Tools designed for high page counts where the page layout varies very little (user guides, etc.). I’ve used Frame for 10 years to produce user guides, and it’s an extremely robust and flexible tool.
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Single-source tools: If you need, at some stage, to produce help text, I would highly recommend a single-sourcing tool. These enable you to produce documents and help files from the same source. I’m using AuthorIT, which enables you to produce Word documents (which you can then obviously save as PDFs) and help files (HTML help, Javahelp, Winhelp, etc.) from the same source text and graphics.
What’s more, text and graphics are stored as “topics,” which is the DTP equivalent of object-oriented programming (or “lego bricks,” if you’re looking for a more homely metaphor): you build a document simply by choosing the topics you want and adding them to a “book” - this means that you can recycle shared material, so that any changes affecting multiple documents with the same material require one update, rather than several.