Now, wait a minute. For one thing, for many people (especially since OS X) it’s not about an “overzealous computer subculture”. Some Windows and PC enthusiasts are intrigued by OS X, and they are in no way interested in being part of a “computer subculture”. And why shouldn’t they be keenly interested in OS X? It’s the first real user-friendly OS based on Unix. Pretty nifty. And the only computers that run OS X are Macs.
You do realize that Macs can run Linux (several versions, at least) too, don’t you? This guy could partition his Mac’s hard drive (partitioning is very easy to do on a Mac) and run both Linux and OS X. Sounds like a lot of variety right there, in one little computer package. Why isn’t it even worth considering? You seem to act as if a Mac should be the last choice for someone seeking “variety”.
Where’s the convincing? Surely he’ll overlook the fact that the machine doesn’t play all the games he wants and isn’t compatible with much of his existing hardware and software when you tell him it’s the machine YOU want him to get!
What I can’t figure out is—why get another computer at all? It seems like 3 Windows-based computers should be plenty to do everything they want already, if all they want is the same old same old.
Maybe it’s because I enjoy a little variety myself that I understand where the OP is coming from. (I have OS X and 9 on my Mac, a Windows 98 box, and because of this thread, am considering getting Linux for my Mac as well.) Getting more of the same seems like a bit of a waste, IMO. A little “variety” could be an exciting dash of spice to their computer lives. What’s so wrong with that?
I have been working in the printing/publishing business for awhile. This is an industry where Macs have always ruled, but because I use a PC at home, and like it, I had been ambivalent to the Great Mac/PC Debate. Macs used to be superior for DTP work as Photoshop, Quark, Illustrator, an even Pagemaker ran better on them then they did on PCs. But this is no longer the case. PCs have become much better machines for DTP work then Macs are. If you have ever tried to Postscript a 50 meg. file on a Mac then you know that you had better have brought your lunch, because you won’t be doing anything else for while. On a PC you can be doing 5 other things while you wait. Across a network of any size Macs are dogs, they take forever to do the simplest thing like creating a new folder.
At work now I have a brand new dual processor Mac with a gig of memory, and a Compaq 1.6 with 456 ram. I will always use the PC when I can as it is faster, more stable, and easier to use than the Mac. The only time I use the Mac is when I am supplied with application files that were done on a Mac, and this is only because of the font issues. PCs will overtake Macs in the publishing world, just as they have done everywhere else, and when they do I think that Apple will have to fold up shop. It is kind of a shame because at one time Macs were pretty good machines, they just didn’t keep up with the rest of the world. If you think that isn’t true just try running Quark on OS 10. I guess what I am saying to the OP is: buying a Mac now would be about the same as buying a horse and buggy was 80 years ago.
As you already know, Quark has not yet released (but is planning to) a version of their software for OS X. Most other big name apps have been ported over, but Quark is dragging its heels. Not the first time with that company.
Did the OP say that they wanted to use the computer for desktop publishing, by the way? I don’t recall any mention of that.
That hasn’t stopped anyone else from stepping into the religious debate, though.
As was already mentioned, the intended use of the new machine is Gaming and Digital Photography. For gaming, the PC is the better (only, if you ask me) platform. Period. Whoever said that “most of the big titles” have been released for the Mac: if you say so; I sure as heck haven’t seen them.
Unless you own an iPod, I can’t see much real advantage to owning a Mac except for the sake of variety. The analogy of “buying another Ford when there are so many GMs out there” is wrong, it’s more like “buying another car when you could get a nice-looking motorcycle that runs diesel and is only allowed on 10% of the roads.”
To the OP: Tell your roommate to get another Windows machine, then go to IKEA and buy a really cool-looking desk lamp to put next to it. Best of both worlds.
Hrmmm. As one who has made ‘the switch’, I can say that OS X blows away XP. IMHO, of course. And game-wise, don’t forget, many games these days (the ones worth playing, at least), are ported to Mac either right away or very soon after PC release.
Now for the down side: I had an eMac. For ~1000.00 it was out of this world. Fast, pretty, great sound and graphics, all that one could ask for. Apple really put a fantastic package together with the eMac.
Of course, mine died inside of a week getting it. Not trying to dissuade your friend from getting a Mac (I have a Sun U30, and damn is it ugly compared to a Mac), but make sure your friend gets it from a local shop if at all possible, since that will greatly expidite any exchange they may have to make. IMHO, at least.
Once iMac prices come down some, I may jump back aboard. Those 15" screens are too damn cool. Far sturdier then one would imagine from just seeing a picture of one.
I thought that was the whole point in the first place. At least from the viewpoint of the OP. If gaming were the whole focus of the computer purchase (at least in the mind of the OP) we wouldn’t be even having a discussion, would we? To reiterate: The OP is interested in variety
I merely pointed out the interest and variety of using OS X. Hardly a “religious debate”, since many hardcore PC users are interesting in dabbling with this Unix-based OS. Yeah, in some cases for the sake of variety.
Whether the roommate agrees with this whole “variety” concept is another matter. If he isn’t interested in variety, he won’t be interested. Obviously.
It doesn’t seem like the original post is about variety, it’s about evangelizing a piece of hardware. Variety may be the premise but I’d suggest letting the gentleman who is going to purchase the computer make his own decisions.
It’s sad that this debate seems to stir up more passionate emotions than the other thread about soft drink preferences. They’re just computers, they all do the same thing with the same amount of usability and user friendliness.
Then why did you suggest to the OP that the guy get a Sun computer (for “variety”) and dismiss the concept of perhaps OS X (or Linux on a Mac) as if that was not worth considering? Why didn’t you suggest previously that the OP let the roommate decide for himself? Since variety has nothing to do with this…
Yes, they are just computers, and I certainly am not about to get all super-frothy at the mouth about them. But if they had the same amount of usability and user friendliness, we wouldn’t have such strong opinions, now would we? Such Mac/PC debates would never exist, now would they?
I used to think that PCs were the lesser of two evils. Then came OSX. I’ve been saying for a long while that as soon as somebody created a version of Unix with a good user interface, it would blow Microsoft out of the water. I just never realized that it would be Apple who would do it.
Yeah, Microsoft’s still going strong, but at this point, it’s all inertia. Mac is the future.
Quark isn’t dragging its feet, and neither is Adobe. This is one of the big problems with Macs, they don’t release betas of their OS to software manufactures. Windows does. That is why you could buy updated software for XP the day after it was released, but you couldn’t with OS 10. And no the OP didn’t suggest that he was going to use his Mac for desktop work, and neither did I. I was trying to make the point (and not very well I’m afraid) that the publishing world has kept Apple in busness, and now that PCs have become better for this purpose than Macs, I think they will soon be gone from the computer world. I am not a Mac hater, I have used them for years, and liked a lot things about them. I just think that they have not kept up.
Oh yean it is. (Quark, I mean.) I don’t work with Quark all that much, (but from what I hear, it has horrible customer service), and yes, it is dragging its feet in porting to OS X. I mean, come on—Freehand 10, Painter 7 (and some other “major” apps that I can’t recall right now) came out a long time ago (almost a year, I think). Photoshop, the latest Macromedia suite, all the “biggies” (to me, at least) have all been out for months, if not longer. But not Quark. So yeah, in my opinion, they are dragging their heels, pure and simple. Their choice, but I can’t see how it’s Apple’s fault that there is no OS X version of Quark yet.
I wouldn’t give up on Macs yet. I think it’s too soon to tell what the impact of OS X will be. I have high hopes for it, and I see increasing respect for it expressed from people who were previously uninterested (or downright hostile) to Macs.
Y’know, Count people have been saying for nearly a decade that the Mac is dying. They were practically screaming it back in 1997, when Apple and Microsoft struck their deal. The coffin had been picked out, and the plot was dug. We were just waiting for the heart to stop beating.
Five years later, what do you know-- Apple’s still kickin’. The company’s like that old great-aunt that seems to run on Energizers. And with the development and release and further development of OS X, it’s quite likely that Apple has bought a few more years of life, even if it is from Satan himself.
Needless to say, I think you’re a bit premature in writing Apple’s obituary. If you think all the Mac is used for these days is publishing, then perhaps you need to do a little research. You’ll find that professionals in a myriad of fields use the Mac, and not just as a pretty paperweight.
WOW! I didn’t think I was going to start the second Spanish Inquisition here! But thanks for the passion. Should I have put this thread in GD?
FWIW, It’s his decision as to which machine he buys. The puprpose of the OP was to get those Mac lovers and users in here to give us reasons to look at buying a Mac. What’s the matter with variety? Granted, having it for it’s own sake seems a bit sillly, but It’s a great point for starting off.
Your points have been taken, the RM prominced to read the thread after he gets home from work tonight. I’ll post you his thoughts and questions he may have then.
Keep up the good work. You are fighting ignorance! 3 cheers!
I work in desktop publishing, and have both Mac (G3, OS9) and PC (Pentium 2, Win NT). Prior to this job, my experience with Apple machines was using a clunky little Mac Plus.
On both machines, I have Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator, as well MS Office Suite. The Mac also has Quark.
Which do I think is better? They both work fine, and I have the best of both worlds. Me and my co-worker have the only Macs in the building, and they’re networked to the only color printer in the building. They also run Virtual PC, which I can use to transfer files from the Mac to the PC network and vice versa.
Using Photoshop with both machines, both run fine. Same with Illustrator. Same with MS Office (the problems I have with Microsoft’s shitty software is not machine related). Even though graphics applications are finer tuned on the Mac, I do prefer the PC a bit more because I can do SAVE AS and click on a similar file name and change it, whereas I have to type the whole thing out on the Mac. It’s also easier to set up file folders and copy/transfer files, mainly because of the PC’s two-button mouse. Maybe OSX now has those features?
Another thing the Mac has in its favor is that it’s now configured to handle Windows generated DOC, PDF and spreadsheet files and pretty much all graphics formats. I can open a PC disk sent from a consultant and save it as a Mac generated file for an outsource.
I do lots of fun stuff with both platforms. I’d recommend your roomie get a Mac just to explore and play with and use to complement his PC network.
I mentioned a machine from Sun Microsystems because it wasn’t brought up as a viable alternative to either piece of hardware (Mac or Wintel). Of course you left out the fact in my second post I suggested to let the gentleman choose for himself. That’s a nice touch on your part.
This is a very funny thread!
My only argument against buying a Mac is that it will be expensive but it’s his money and I’m sure it’ll do very well to boost Mac’s market share back up to a healthy 3%. Please note this article is from January 2002 and with the release of the eagerly awaited Jaguar things may have changed. Good for them!
CITE: http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0201/09.marketshare.php
Maybe it’s just me, but I find switching back and forth between the two systems to be a bit of a pain. I have always used Windows. A couple years ago, my 85-year-old mother chose a Mac for her first computer, because she had heard that it was user-friendly. Well, she would be the first to admit that she would never be a candidate for one of those Apple commercials, because she has had a hard time getting the hang of it. So, I had to teach myself to use the Mac OS, to be able to help out my mother.
I find it very frustrating, when I sit down at my mother’s computer, not to be able to do things the way I’m used to doing them. Now, this is not an argument that the Windows OS is better than the Mac OS, because I assume I would feel similarly frustrated if I were used to Macs and then had to learn to use Windows. But the little differences make me crazy – like, for instance, when you click on the “X” on a Windows window, it closes the program, but that is not always the case with the Mac OS.
I notice there are people who have posted on this thread who have no problem using both systems, and that’s great. But your RM should consider whether he’s set in his ways, such that using two systems would be frustrating, or whether he would enjoy switching between two systems and getting the best of both worlds.
