Yes exactly! There seems to be a subset of women who believe that crying at work when things don’t go your way is ok. It’s really, really not.
I think I’d rather have someone who swigs out of a gin bottle they keep in their filing cabinet than a cryer - at least then they don’t have a flock of mother hens around them cooing and shusshing and going on about how everything is ok and it’s not their fault and boo hoo hoo.
You know what - sometimes it IS their fault and if a person is going to have a job they need to accept that sometimes they will screw up and catch shit for it. Going to pieces and bawling in the office is not the correct reaction.
On the overtime issue, I wouldn’t phrase it as an overtime issue at all. Rather, I would say something like this: “This isn’t really a 9 to 5 job. Rather, the job would require you to accomplish certain tasks each day, and the time it takes to accomplish those tasks may exceed 8 hours. Is that fine?”
I would most definitely mention this in the interview. That’s a huge selling point in attracting a good person.
I also work at a university, and I understand where you’re coming from. Working for faculty presents its own challenges. It is frustrating when someone who speaks 5 languages and has multiple degrees can’t learn how to complete the simplest paperwork. But it comes with the territory, and I would definitely make that clear in the interview as well.
This would be a dealbreaker for me. I do not allow myself to be yelled at, especially not for a temp position. I conduct myself like an adult at work, and I expect my co-workers and bosses to do the same.
Humm - I’ve sort of made my boss sound like an ogre and he’s really not! He comes in at X-mas wearing a Santa hat and passing out cookies - he’s pretty soft.
However, he gets very frustrated by what he considers Canadian inefficiencies (he’s German) and he huffs and puffs and threatens to leave and move his family back to Germany, and I say 'Uh huh" and hes done. It’s really not a screaming, yelling, throwing things around type of situation.
And she’s expected to work 7 hours a day (if she takes an hour for lunch then she’s there for 8 hours, but she doesn’t have to - that is, I don’t make her.)
The boss slamming things around, or even getting loud, would be a deal-breaker for me. If you expect me to behave professionally, then certainly the bosses should behave similarly. My interview question might be something along the lines of “How do you handle it if you’re having trouble completing or understanding a task.” And I would ask something like “What is the most frustrating time you’ve ever had at work?” Then the followup question would be “How did you respond?”
And if you have someone whose work is otherwise good but seems to have a time-management issue, then I think you need to address that issue and work together to correct that. In the case of the project overdue by several days, perhaps she needed to be asked to send daily or weekly updates. I’m not saying their hand should be held for every assignment, and if they require that, they aren’t the right fit.
Regarding overtime, I’d be upfront about the frequency and the expectations. Don’t just say “are you flexible”, specifically outline what the overtime is likely to consist. In my case, I could work up to an hour with no notice. But more than that, I’d need to know the previous day so I could put my dogs in their kennel rather than leave them in the house. If you want the working hours to be 8:30-4:30, state that. Any new hire should be able to conform to your hours or not get the job.
Any good AA should know they aren’t the boss. I might ask something about what their ideal job would be. Some people are happy being in a job where they know what is expected of them, knowing that they can do their job and leave it at the end of the day. Not everyone wants to be a manager.
Just like you don’t want people to sugarcoat their responses to you, be honest with them about the drawbacks as well as the good points of the job. You won’t get a good fit if you aren’t upfront about everything.
Actually, this is what the first page of the ‘Job Openings’ page looks like at my University:
Now showing 1 - 10 of 165 (0 selected) | How to use this page. |< < 1
Job ID
Administrative Assistant, Division of Applied Psychology 7044 Calgary Sep 18, 2008
Administrative Assistant, Support Services, Faculty of Medicine 7006 Calgary Sep 11, 2008
Administrative Assistant, Department of Chemical and Petroleum Engineering 7013 Calgary Sep 15, 2008
Administrative Assistant, Undergraduate and International Programs, Department of Civil Engineering 7049 Calgary Sep 19, 2008
Administrative Assistant, Information Technologies 7022 Calgary Sep 17, 2008
Administrative Assistant, Graduate Divison of Education Research 7015 Calgary Sep 15, 2008
Administrative Assistant (Full-time), Faculty of Medicine 7058 Calgary Sep 17, 2008
Administrative Assistant, Undergraduate Science Education, Faculty of Medicine 7008 Calgary Sep 12, 2008
Administrative Assistant (Part-time), Faculty of Medicine 7057 Calgary Sep 17, 2008
Administrative Assistant, Legal Unit 7004 Calgary Sep 11, 2008
It just goes on and on like that - I’m amazed anyone applied for my job at all.
Good lord - around here AA positions get flooded with apps the moment they are announced.
If it weren’t for the added difficulties that a US citizen would face in relocating to Canada I’d seriously consider moving to where you are and applying.
Since most of the overtime seems to be related to deadlines, I’d ask a potential AA how she does with deadlines. Try asking something like “If you had a project due in a day, but it looks like it will take more than a day’s work, what would you do?” or having the candidate tell you about a time when she faced a tight deadline.
As for stress and politics, a recent potential employer asked me outright, “How would you deal with it if clients yelled at you?” Part of the job was going to be dealing with disgruntled clients, so it was a relevant, fair question. Since meeting deadlines is part of the job, why not try asking her what she does when deadlines are tight and tension in the office is high. If your boss loses his temper when things run behind or deadlines are missed, a good admin might either be able to prevent that or accept it as part of the cost of missing a deadline.
But the issue there isn’t overtime! It’s “being able to do things on time” and “being a self-starter.” Which an older person is, again, more likely to be able to do.
I’m fine with overtime so long as there’s a point to it (i.e., “we need to do this by next Monday and we can’t get it by them without OT”); I hate face time so of course even more face overtime (yes, I’ve had that). And I tend to be ahead of my assignments; the worst case of “face overtime” I’ve suffered was one where I was 2 months ahead of the project calendar and the boss still insisted in making the whole team be in the office 12x5
Sorry, no, I’m not looking for an AA job, not my field But make sure you understand where your own problems are, the problem here, again, is not overtime.
Nava’s right - it sounds like it’s not so much overtime as a need for an AA who finishes assigned tasks on schedule.
There are people who cannot work any overtime at all (or who would be unable to work certain hours that fall into the overtime spectrum - the Saturday would be a problem for observant Jews, for example) - but most professional AAs will be thrilled if the overtime actually only consists of a planned-well-in-advance Saturday or the occasional evening to finish up tasks that must be completed by a deadline also established well in advance. From an AA’s point of view, I’m a little suspicious in interviews when I hear “requires some overtime” because a number of employers I’ve had (including one of the promotions in-house that I declined before accepting my current position) said “a little overtime” and meant 2 - 4 hours a night, every night. The odd hour here or there finishing up a project on time is one thing, random frequent overtime because someone else failed to plan ahead is an entirely different matter.
I agree with Broomstick that you might be best served by an older, career AA. I say this as a younger career AA.
Generally speaking, a career AA isn’t looking for their boss’ job and certainly knows better than to cry at work. Also, a career AA has almost certainly been keeping abreast of advances in technology - or at least a good one has. There are several ladies old enough to be my grandmother working as AAs at my firm, and every one of them is at least willing to give learning a new tech a shot if it’s desired or required.
Is Canada similar to the US in terms of things that should not be asked in interviews (age, marital status, children, disabilities, etc.)? I can certainly understand the idea of trying to narrow down by age or gender but it really comes down to the individual. A woman of what you assume is childbearing age may have no children and plan on never having any. A man may have kids he picks up but be fully qualified for a “9-5” gig and not feel it’s beneath him.
But I understand the through processes that lead to narrow down by these criteria. We had a round of interviews for a position in a department full of loud native NH/VT women and two interviewees fit that mold. Three were native Chinese folks (one man, two women) with strong accents and some language limitations. They could all do the job, except possibly for the effective communication with customers part. The chair asked us our reactions with respect to skills and “how the person would fit in with the team”. If enough weight is given to the latter, only loud native women will ever be hired!
Well, sort of. I promise that the issue is more complecated than my current AA not being able to finish stuff on time.
There ARE some times (once and a while) when I need her to come in early or stay late and she just can’t do it. And it not necessarily because she’s not getting her work done. There are some days where a 6:30 or 7:00 AM start is required, but the work doesn’t finish at 2:30 to make up for it - it’s days like that when I really need someone who can come in early and stay till their regular time. It’s important to note that they are well compensated for it - it’s not as though they’re doing it for free or for their regular salary.
My current AA CANNOT do this.
Or, another example is when an outside vendor screws up. Current AA will get the work done but then an outside vender screws up and the work needs to be RE-done. Some times that means staying later than that usual end time and she can’t do that either.
However, I’m really not dumping on my current AA - she has a lot of qualities that are fantastic and make up for it; however, it would be great if the new person was a touch more flexible.
a) something she would go for (she does NOT do overtime)
or
b) something that would be allowed with my institutions confidentiality policy
I think when she returns she and I will have to have a talk about some of the stuff she can and cannot do. I mean, we’re mandated to keep a position at her current level, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be the SAME position. I may find that I need the flexiblity more as things progress.
But make sure you understand where your own problems are, the problem here, again, is not overtime.