Help me like The White Stripes

Cafe Society
1

The music critics love them. Many of my most intelligent friends, who love music, love them. More than one has assured my I would love them. And yet – I do not love them. I hates them like a gollum hates hobbits. The burned-out amp sound, the repetitive drumming, the l33t writing on the album covers, the dating of supermodels and MTV music awards appearances… it all just irritates me.

What I try to appreciate is Jack’s appreciation for American musical history and that even my idol of music appreciation, T Bone Burnett, appreciates him. But when it comes to putting a CD in and digging a track, I’m just not digging it.

Help me out here.

2

The most interesting thing about the White Stripes to me is the energy they have when they’re playing blues stuff. They don’t treat those songs like museum pieces, they just beat the tar out of them, and it’s refreshing. But I’m not really a big fan either.

3

I love the White Stripes. I could do without the crazy brother/sister subtext, the avante-garde red/white thing, and the other pretentious trappings of the band, but the music is awesome. Jack White is a phenomenal talent. Meg is a just okay drummer, but her limited abilities fits the style of music they are playing and actually add something to it in its minimalism.

I like them for the same reason Marley23 points out - their energy. I love bands that put their heart into their music. The Who is like that. When you hear Roger Daltry scream on “Won’t Get Fooled Again”, you just know that he left his vocal cords on the studio floor when he was done. Balls-to-the-wall playing and singing. The White Stripes play like that all the time.

If you get the chance, download the video of their live cover of Dolly Parton’s “Jolene”, which they performed on Conan O’Brien’s show. They took a cheatin’ and hurtin’ country song, and turned it into an anguished blast of pain and pleading. It just gushes emotion. Or check out their live performance at last year’s Grammy Awards, when they just blew the roof off the dump.

Their cover of Son House’s “Death Letter” is better than the original, and that’s saying something. Jack White is from the Robert Johnson side of the Blues, the slightly dangerous, over-the-top, hellhounds on his tail kind of blues. Eric Clapton, much as I love him, can sound pale and inauthentic next to White. White is also a supurb slide guitar player.

Basically, for me every new White Stripes album feels a little like I think it must have felt to be a Beatles fan when a new record came out. They re-invent themselves every time, and take their music to a new place you didn’t expect. Jack White has shown he can master country, rock, blues, pop, bluegrass, and roots music. He’s a genuine musical genius, IMO. His work on Loretta Lynn’s “Van Lear Rose” gave her the best album of her career, and one of the best country albums of the last decade. The stuff he did on the Cold Mountain soundtrack was uniformly excellent. We’ll be hearing about him for decades unless he burns out or dies.

FWIW, stay away from their last album if you’re not sure you like them. It’s quite different, and there are a couple of songs on it I actively dislike. De Stijl is probably my favorite, but White Blood Cells and Elephant are of equal quality. If you like hard rocking blues, just listen to those CDs a few times until it sinks in. Then you’ll either love them or not. I don’t think there’s much middle ground.

4

When we talk about liking the “White Stripes,” what we mean is “liking Jack White.” Because he IS the White Stripes, as far as I’m concerned. And he is very, very talented.

Jack White should get together with a good (but not too showy) drummer, and a creative, interesting bass player like Flea.

5

Who cares if you don’t like the White Stripes? I can take them or leave them, personally, but I can’t imagine trying to learn to like them. It’s just not a big deal.

6

Maybe I’m just open-minded. There are many things (food, music, movies) I wish people would give a second chance, and I don’t want to be one of those who immediately makes up his mind and isn’t open to changing it.

If the thread doesn’t interest you, stay out of it.

7

:eek:
I was with you until you made this remark. Surely you can’t mean it (I’m sure Jack White wouldn’t agree with this assessment at all). The White Stripes cover is pretty cool, certainly not an embarrassment…but, well, in my opinion, there should be a statue of Son House in every American city and town for his work in general, and “Death Letter” in particular. You could learn how to play every White Stripes song on a guitar in a week or two…you could spend the rest of your life trying to get Son House’s unique sound. Robert Johnson himself aspired to sounding like Son House.

8

Sam Stone speaks for me (and a lot more eloquently than I ever could.)

Originally, when I first heard about the White Stripes, the red/white/sister/brother stuff turned me off. And yeah, I thought, why should I care about them? But then I saw them perform on TV and I was blown away. They really feel it, they really play it. That matters. It matters a lot.

And yes, De Stijl is probably still my favorite, but they do try something new every time.

It would be interesting to hear them play with Flea.

Will see the White Stripes live at Red Rocks on the 22nd. Can’t wait.

9

Meh. I saw that (well, I saw the “Live Under the Blackpool Lights” version). I didn’t feel any pain or anguish or anything, it just sounded like a guy trying really hard to try and sound like that - like he thinks pinching off his vocal chords is an acceptable substitute for real emotion.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate them or anything. They’ve got some toe tapping songs, but I don’t think I would buy an album of theirs.

10

cricetus - well, what music do you like and why? What artists:

  • immediately appeal to you, love at first listen, and have gotten better over time?
  • did you perhaps not like at first, but grew to like - what changed about how you listened to them?
  • are artists where you don’t appreciate/like/respect their image or non-music activities, but like their music?
  • don’t sound like they have a “burned out” amp sound?

I can tell you why I like the White Stripes, or other bands for that matter, but until I know a little more about how you think about music, I don’t know what arguments to make. The bottom line is that the White Stripes have an immediate music appeal - the songs, the energy, the execution and the overall tone - but it sounds like you aren’t hearing it, or at least letting yourself hear it.

Help us understand how you listen - maybe we can make a connection.

11

Interesting questions. My favorite bands are Uncle Tupelo/Wilco and various other alt-country/Americana groups (I bought Elephant because it was in the “alt country” section at my local music store, but I never cottoned to it).

Wilco’s Yankee Hotel Foxtrot, I did not like at first, because it seemed buried under layers of noise, but over time (and mostly because suddenly everyone was listening to Wilco on account of that CD) I grew to love it, and I now consider it their best work. Sort of similar is some old blues (like Son House) that are murky because of being old and having poor sound quality, but over time I was able to hear the music behind the fuzz and pop of the old recordings.

Um… bit more of a challenge with the idea of liking somebody’s music when I don’t like their style. Maybe Ryan Adams? He’s a bit of a load and a drama queen, but I sure like his music.

Do you think White is trying to sound like old time blues artists?

12

Their muchy-ballyhooed “low-fi” or “garage rock” or “low tech” sound is an effort to that end, yeah.

13

If you dig Uncle Tupelo/Wilco, I’d recommend that you stop trying to like the White Stripes and instead (if you haven’t done this already), go out and buy a shitload of Neil Young albums. (I mean this in a good way…I like both of these younger bands, but mainly because they’re so good at playing their guitars like Neil Young, who is a god to me…)

14

It’s cool that you’re open-minded, but eventually there’s gonna be a point where you just gotta say that you don’t like the White Stripes. You gave 'em their fair chance and they did nothing for you. There’s no shame in that.

For what it’s worth, I thought there were a few cool songs on Elephant, but nothing that I listen to regularly, and certainly nothing that inspired me to go out and buy more stuff from them. I definitely appreciate the creativity that they’ve got going on–and Meg White is a very cool drummer–but I just don’t like 'em that much.

15

I don’t know why you have to put yourself in any kind of musical genre. “If you’re a Wilco fan, you probably won’t like X.”

Some of us like good music no matter where we find it. Rock, rap, country, jazz, classical… It really doesn’t matter.

16

This is sorta my take on them too. On record, they’re pretty damn good, but not especially mesmerizing. I don’t think I’ve ever listened to a White Stripes album beginning to end more than once. I’m not really interested in hearing their records.

Live, however, is a different story. They are nothing short of phenomenal as a live act. I’ve never seen two people exude that much energy. Simply put, Jack and Meg have a compelling charisma–they’re larger than life when they’re on stage, and that’s a bit of rock tradition I miss. The trend these days tends to be to four regular guys with guitars and drums wearing ratty tee shirts and jeans on stage. While most of my favorite bands are cut of this cloth, I miss the histrionics and pyrotechnics of old school rock and roll. I like a bit of theater in my music, and the White Stripes fulfil this live.

Add to that Jack White’s phenomenal fretwork and impassioned vocals. I mean, they tear the living shit out of every song they play. Soul just oozes from these two. Say what you want about Meg, but I cannot say she lacks on-stage charisma and charm as a drummer. Her minimalistic (and often off-kilter) time keeping is the ideal backdrop for Jack’s manic and frenzied leads. Jack is allowed much more freedom on his solos because of Meg’s simple patterns and doesn’t have to fear competing with her for attention. I don’t think the White Stripes would work with a more technical drummer. The looseness of Meg’s drumming is definitely an asset in my opinion. It suits the music. You wouldn’t want a tight drummer for this sort of dirty blues rock.

17

Sometimes it’s difficult to get into a certain band or style of music without having been into styles that came before it. Sometimes you might just like originators of musical styles more than their offshoots. Sometimes, like pulykamell says, live is entirely different and that’s where all the magic happens. Sometimes, if everyone and their brother is into something, you either get exposed when you aren’t ready for something, say when you need your own time to explore it. And sometimes it’s just not going to be your thing, maybe ever, and you should just give up on worrying about what everyone else thinks.

18

You’re right. It’s foolish to “try to like something.” Either you like it or you don’t. For me, if something doesn’t immediately draw me in, if I have to put in effort to “liking it,” then it’s a lost cawze.

19

I don’t think you have to write it off as a lost cause. I do think it’s possible to like music you don’t like it if someone explains it, and that if you try to get into it eventually it might prove worth it.

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot is a good example. I didn’t like it at first. Since I spent money on the cd, I looked at reviews to see what they thought was so great about it. After that and more listens, a lightbulb went off over my head and got it. I dig the cd now.

20

All good stuff - and when you have ultrafilter and pulykamell offering thoughts, you’re getting a thoughtful view on the music.

Alt.country, eh? Well, that, to me, explains a lot. The White Stripes are NOT alt.country. Nothing wrong with that genre - lots to love about it, but if your head was ready to hear that, it is not surprising that you are: a) not engaged on the White Stripes; and b) wondering if you should try on “different ears.”

A few points about the White Stripes:

  • They take a bunch of influences, but make them their own - country (love for Loretta Lynn, covering Dolly Parton, etc.), Burt Bacharach (covering his song on Elephant), Led Zeppelin, older traditional blues and folk, etc.
  • They tend to be song-focused - their songs are well-written and well-contructed and can vary wildly across styles - look at Black Math vs. Cold Cold Night vs. the traditional folk song at the end fo Elephant with the guest girl singer on it. If you aren’t ready to listen across styles, it can be a problem. What they have that acts as “glue” is Jack’s voice and Meg’s drumming. Jack varies up the instrumentation beyond that.
  • I tend to listen to the White Stripes in the following way -
    > first, I just listen - there is usually a fun riff (Seven Nation Army, Hardest Button) or a beautiful tone (Cold Cold night, I Want to be The Boy…) that I simply enjoy hearing
    > Second - I try to hear how my energy is being managed - they do a good job of starting mellow, getting big, varying it up and quieting down again, etc. - I enjoy hearing them do that.
    > Third - I listen to Jack’s guitar playing (if there) - as I have posted in many threads, he is a great guitarist - able to “lock in” to the groove while interspersing licks and fills. My favorite kind of player.
    > Fourth - I break out the influences - who are the lifting from?
    > Fifth - I listen to the whole thing again and see how they have knitted together a lot of stuff and made it their own.

My $.02.

Different topic: alt.country - now there’s an interesting set of influences. The roots country stuff is obvious. But I was listening to Sun Kil Moon’s Ghosts of the Great Highway - great, great CD with obvious Neil Young influences in it - and really hear (only on a few songs - most are acoustic) the distortion and reverb-laden soft rhythm guitar from 90’s bands My Bloody Valentine and early Smashing Pumpkins…