Help me not get hustled by the mechanic

Factual Questions
1

I’m taking my car in today to get fixed, and I was hoping for some friendly advice about what this problem is. Any information about what it definitely is not or what a mechanic might peddle off on me as necessary would be grandly appreciated.

My “check engine” light came on two days ago. The engine runs poorly while idling or attempting to accelerate or go up a hill – the power doesn’t seem to be consistent, it put-put-puts. If I keep pushing the gas, this increases and the MPH gauge, if I’m moving, tends to move up and down rapidly as it struggles. If I release the gas, then press down lightly, often the engine stops struggling or makes a lot less noise.

This problem occurred after being very cold (could be coincidence though), but did continue and get progressively worse after getting warm. I thought it could be a gas line problem so, when it was still cold, I put some Heet in it, which didn’t do anything. If it helps, it’s a 96 Chrysler Cirrus, 125k miles. I just got the oil changed and the fluids checked when it was first very barely occurring.

Any advice?

2

Change your fuel filter, air filter, spark plugs, and change the oil. Pour some injector cleaner (carb cleaner if applicable) and you might be OK. Go to Autozone and ask for advice. If you want the SES light to go off, you’ll have to have it cleared at a local shop or Pep Boys ($80 i believe).

3

At worst, you could get the number of a mechanic your buddy really trusts. Go there, and insist on seeing the computer assessment when it’s attached to your car’s computer. Immediately call another trusted mechanic and ask them what it would roughly cost to fix the problem you see on the screen. That way you’re testing their pricing, too.

4

to reset the SES light on probably 99% of american cars, unhook your battery for 5 minutes. Most cars will be clean after 30 seconds.

Depending on the problem it will most likely come back on within 30 seconds anyway…

If a sensor has gone bad, the car will code almost immediately…

5

For one thing, mention to the mechanic that you never take your car to the same place twice. This way he won’t bother to sabotage something to keep you comin’ back. If you haven’t changed out your timing belt do it now. It could cause expensive damage if it breaks. At 125k the Check Engine light is reminding you to do this.

6

That could backfire too. If you never come back he wont care about the quality of service he gives you. Since you wont be coming back anyway…

7

::: Sigh::: Lots of misinformation here.
From the top

If I understand what you mean here, probably the engine is misfiring.

I can’t determine what the word “this” refers to in that sentence. Also a “MPH gauge” is the speedometer. Speedometer makes no sense in this context. Do you perhaps mean the tachometer? This would make sense and go along with the misfire possibility.

If the car is misfiring changing the air filter, fuel filter and changing the oil probably won’t help. Changing the spark plugs might help. I suspect from the wording of the OP that fluiddruid does not have either the tools or the knowledge to change spark plugs or the other items listed.

Right, when I want advice on how best to repair a complex computerized car I always ask the 18 year-old high school drop out at my local Autozone. I mean why go to a dealer, or an ASE certified mechanic when all the answers are available at your local Autozone. [/sarcasm]

For $80 or so I would expect a diagnosis not just the light killed.

First off I suspect that fluiddruid does not have one trusted mechanic much less two. If fluiddruid had a trusted mechanic I doubt that this thread would be named Help me not get hustled by the mechanic
Also this tactic would get you thrown out of any shop I ever worked at.

WTF? IMNSHO this is probably the best way to get screwed by a less than honest mechanic, short of wearing a I’m stupid so go ahead and Fuck me T-shirt into the shop when you drop the car off. If the shop knows you are never coming back, they have no incentive to even try to do a good job at anything except removing money from your wallet. Have you ever heard the stories about people getting screwed when their car breaks down on a trip?
Also sabotage something? Yeah whenever I work on a car I make sure I push the “make the brake pads wear out” button so the customer will come back. And when the car comes back for the brake pads, I push the “Bad Alternator” button. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Well you are half right. If the timing belt breaks it can, in many cases, cause major damage. The check engine light does not monitor the condition of the timing belt however.

8

autozone will check codes and look them up for you, for free… fwiw. you can narrow down the problem from this.

9

While I do love the sarcasm of the last poster, I do have to say that none of you are giving particularly good advice to the poor guy.

First off, making the ‘check engine’ light on a Chrysler go out is as simple as removing one of the terminals from the battery for about 30 seconds and putting it back on, which I would assume even a non-mechanically inclined person can do.

Resetting it alone may fix the problem, since it clears the computer, but probably not. My guess is, you will reset it and it will come back on within a few hours, if not minutes. For a Chrysler. the cause of the problem is most likely one of three things:

  1. clogged fuel filter
  2. bad oxygen sensor
  3. bad catalytic converter

All of this is good news because problems 1 and 2 are easy and cheap to fix. And with problem 3, while it is complex to fix (will require cutting out the old one and welding a new one in), it is the least likely of the three problems and even if it IS the problem, you should still be under warranty for exhaust problems. Typically, catalytic converters have one of the longest warranties of anything on a car, usually 10 years, so you usually have a dealer fix it free. People who are telling you to change your spark plugs and air filter are smoking something. In my whole mechanical life, I have never seen a dirty air filter be the cause of anything other than poor gas milage. And changing the spark plugs? These people are nuts to suggest that. Sure, if they’ve never been changed, by all means do it, but I’d bet serious money that is NOT the source of the problem.

10

last time i checked… i mentioned that in the THIRD POST.

11

You are right Yardster, I didn?t give any good advice in my last post. So here is some good advice, from a pro.
Take your car to your local trusted, competent professional automotive technician
What? You don’t have a trusted, competent shop that you deal with? Why not? OK, let’s discuss how to find one.
First off there is only one nationally recognized certification for automotive technicians in the United States, ASE. Here is their
consumer webstite with lots of good info. You can tell a shop with ASE certified technicians by the big blue sign out front. Here is a reprint from USA Today on how to find a good shop .
Also here in California the Auto Club (AAA) also has a program call AAA-Approved Auto Repair. To be part of this program a shop must offer a 12 month-12,000 warranty on repairs and agree to arbitration by the auto club in the event of a dispute. This program is not available in all states. Check on line with your local auto club.
Ask your friends for who where they take their car for service. One warning however, your friend may take his Rolls-Canhardly to the world’s greatest R-C repair technician. This guy might everything there is to know about R-C’s, but not know squat about your Chrysler.
If all else fails, the dealer has a shop full of trained technicians.
Lastly, judge a shop on the quality of the repairs, not on the price. If the transmission falls out of your car, don’t think badly of the shop because transmissions cost a lot of $$.
What you should judge a shop on:
[ul]
[li]Was the car fixed right?[/li][li]Can you speak the same language as the guy working on your car?[/li][li]Is the shop presentable? (working on cars is a dirty business, but still there is no excuse for a shop to be a whore’s nest)[/li][li]Were the repairs explained to you?[/li][li]Did that explanation make sense?[/li][li]If no, did the shop try to explain it a different way?[/li][li]Does the shop have any certifications? (ASE, AAA, or manufacturers. If manufacturers, how old are they? A technician might have worked at a dealer 20 years ago, took a class and now refers to himself as being “Factory Trained”)[/li][li]Were you given an estimate? (some states require this in writing, others do not. A quality shop should always call once the diagnosis is done and before any repair is started, especially if the repairs are going to be expensive.[/li][/ul]
You will note price is not listed.
When you find a good technician / shop stick with it. Go back there, and become a regular. Every shop I have ever worked at a regular is the customer you want. We would always bust our ass to keep a regular customer happy.

Now back to your regularly scheduled sarcasm.
Yardster, do you have a cite that bad fuel filters, bad cats, and bad O2 sensors are the top three causes of check engine lights on Chrysler products? I got five bucks that says none of these is #1, and that clogged fuel filters is not even in the top ten. But hey, what do I know, I’ve only been doing this for the last 35 years, and my ASE master automotive technician status doesn’t mean much. ::: shrug:::
I do not suggest that you clear the codes before going to see a competent mechanic. Some codes do not reappear right away, and any frozen values that were locked in when the code was first set will be lost. This information might make it easier for the technician to fault trace the problem.
Also based on the OP I doubt that fluiddruid could even find the battery in a cloud car much less disconnect it safely. (Hint: It’s not under the hood, in the trunk, or under the back seat.)
And about this paragraph

Look dude, the spark plugs make the spark that fires the cylinder. If the spark plugs don’t work right, the cylinder misfires. A 96 monitors misfire. Spark plugs can for sure not only cause a misfire, but trip a check engine light as well.
For your general fund of information I have seen brand new high dollar spark plugs cause a misfire in an engine that they were not suited for. I have also had out of the box duds, and plugs fail long before their time. When fault tracing a misfire, inspection of the spark plugs is usually one of the first things I do. If I am going to remove them, installing new ones is only a few bucks. Compared to my hourly labor rate, the cost of plugs is peanuts.

12

Ah, geez.

Okay, for starters, why you should listen to me: I’ve been an auto repair professional for over 30 years. I’m an ASE certified Master Automotive Technician (= mechanic). I have managed shops, and now I own a shop. I know what I’m talking about.

Rick also knows what he’s talking about. His advice and insight is sound.

fluiddruid: There are many possible causes for the symptoms you describe. There’s not just one or two clearly most likely things. It’s really not practical to try to diagnose it over the net, all we could do is guess. The list of reasonable possibilities is way too long. It’s also not practical to try to list the various misinformation you could receive – again, the list is way too long.

If you really don’t trust the shop, you really shouldn’t have your car there. It’s much easier to learn how to find an honorable, competent shop than it is to learn enough mechanical knowledge to protect yourself against dealing with a dishonorable and/or incompetent shop. In addition to Rick’s advice above on that issue, there’s some from me in this thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=162956

Do NOT disconnect the battery or have anything cleared before proper diagnosis is performed. Do NOT confuse simply reading the code memory with proper diagnosis. Trying to shortcut the evaluation and repair of the problem is virtually certain to cost more money, as well as more time and aggravation, than having the WHOLE testing and repair process done by a good shop.

I’m not going to repeat Rick’s critique of previous advice, though I do agree. But I do feel compelled to comment on this: For one thing, mention to the mechanic that you never take your car to the same place twice. This way he won’t bother to sabotage something to keep you comin’ back.

That is the most asinine auto repair advice I recall ever seeing. People who “shop-hop” are hardly ever satisfied, and little wonder. Someone who develops a relationship with a shop, over several visits, is a customer. And most people will be treated like a customer on their first visit, unless they have an obvious negative “you guys are crooks and I don’t trust you” attitude. Someone like that is just a person with a broken car, not a customer.

The idea of sabotaging a car for repeat business is pretty ridiculous. I can see where the notion would relate to the fears and suspicions of those who feel vulnerable about auto repair, but it would be extremely difficult to pull off, and I haven’t seen it in my career. Statistically, you have much more to fear from incompetence (all too common) than from intentional egregious rip-offs (relatively rare).

13

Yikes, this thread turned into a trainwreck…

Seriously, though, thanks for the thoughts. I took the car in and got a tuneup. They hooked the computer up to a diagnostic machine - one of the cylinders wasn’t working properly. After an overall tuneup, the car’s running like a dream. They showed me some of the parts (like sparkplugs), most of them were original and needed desperately to be replaced.

Rick: I’m sorry if I confused you. Yes, the speedometer was going rapidly up and down when the engine struggled - I’d have the cruise control on or be pressing the gas at a standard rate and start going up a gradual incline, and the engine would struggle, causing it to rapidly go between, say, 65 and 70 mph.

I ended up just going with the only place that I’ve even vaguely heard that they do ethical business practices. I’ll definitely look at the advice for trying to locate a permanent mechanic. I’m afraid my dealership just caused me a lot of problems (power steering still unfixed after 3 visits) and I didn’t want to go back.

14

Really, in all your 30 years of service??? All mechanics will have at least deleted the files in the muffler bearings at one time in their career :stuck_out_tongue:

15

Sorry, I meant to add something helpful.

In addition to some of the things mentioned by a couple of other posters.

Find somebody that you believe knows something about cars or is at least mechanically inclined and ask them if they can recommend a place. There are no guarantees, even a great mechanic/shop has a bad day every now and then. The recommendation should be for a place that has been around for years with the same mechanics.

16

Damn! Now I need to get me a muffler bearing file deleter tool! :smiley:

I’m not saying I haven’t seen and heard of some pretty slimy stuff. But the only deliberate sabotage I’ve heard about was in an article about service drive scams (from the days of gas station attendants who would check under the hood), stuff like partially cutting drive belts to make a sale then and there. But the logistics of doing something to cause a need for future service at the same shop are essentially unworkable. I’ve never seen it, never heard of it, and don’t see how it could be done with any realistic hope of success.

17

I’d like to share my personal methodology for handling car repair issues.

  1. If I get a problem or a check engine light, I take the car in to a shop.
  2. I then have the problem diagnosed. That’ll start with the computer getting read. The shop gives me a quote for further work from there. I’ll also write down the precise code the engine computer is throwing. I run this against my subscription to www.alldata.com. This gives me an idea of what the indicated troubleshooting steps are, to give me a general idea of whether or not the labor hours for troubleshooting in step 3 make sense.
  3. I have the shop continue with troubleshooting until the problem is known.
  4. If the repair items found are under $100-$150 or so, I have the first shop do the work.
  5. If the repair items found exceed $150, I get quotes from 3 AAA-approved shops in my area to have the repairs in question performed. Lowest bidder gets the repair work, unless the price difference between the first shop and the lowest bidder is small enough that it just doesn’t justify my time driving the car from shop to shop.

I’ve found wide variations in quoted prices. In one instance, the local Midas folks actually wanted MORE THAN THE DEALER to replace a wheel assembly on my Oldsmobile.

18

According to my 3 different local Autozones, they are not allowed to do this anymore. At least on the OBD2 cars.

19

f.d, since you’ve already gotten the thing fixed, my thoughts are now moot, but I’ll throw them in anyway: My advice to anyone in this predicament is A) find your most mechanically-inclined friends, B) ask then who their mechanic is, C) ask them if they like their mechanic, and D) shop around. When all else fails, go to a dealer. I’m fortunate to have a garage that I’m very confident in (based on testimonials and plenty of empirical evidence), and they’re almost always cheaper than any dealer I’ve ever been to. I am in mechanic Shangri-La at this point, a position I’ve rarely enjoyed in my life, and I owe it all to dilligent searching.

Time was when I knew my way around a two-stroke engine well enough I could fix it myself, no problem. The shitbox land-yachts I bought of off somebody’s front yard when I was in high school and college I could also at least diagnose; I could open the hood and recognize pretty much whatever you could point at, and some repairs I even did on my own. Now new car innards baffle me. I don’t know what the hell most of the stuff is anymore, much less how to fix it. I’m helpless without a skilled technician, and it makes me uncomfortable, even with the trust I’ve developed in my present situation. That’s part of the reason I’m still driving a '93 Honda Accord I’m bored-to-tears with: The devil you know…(plus it refuses to die…it just will not die). I will buy another Japanese import for essentially the sole purpose of keeping my mechanic. It’s that important.