I wasn’t really debating so much as trying to establish criteria for “old guard” teams.
[/hijack]
[QUOTE=Bearflag70]
Ellis Dee, I see what you’re saying, but I have a couple of points:
<snip>
4. Browns as “old guard” team and their alleged history of “suckitude”:
1946: NFL Champs
1947: NFL Champs
1948: NFL Champs
1949: NFL Champs
1950: NFL Champs
1951: Championship game appearance
1952: Championship game appearance
1953: Championship game appearance
1954: NFL Champs
1955: NFL Champs
1964: NFL Champs
[Legends: Paul Brown, Jim Brown, Bernie Kosar 
]
Just as a slight correction, during the years 1946-1949 the Browns were champions of the NFL’s rival league, the All-American Football Conference (AAFC) and not of the NFL. The Browns also appeared in the NFL championship game in 1957 (losing to the Lions) and 1965 (losing to Green Bay). During the Super Bowl era the Browns lost in the NFL semi-final game (ie the conference championship game) in 1968, 1969, 1986, 1987 and 1989.
Morality to the wind, I tell you!
Aye, I meant “debate” more as “discussion” than as “Great Debate”.
Thanks, I was trying to slap all the info together from the various team websites.
I feel your pain as a life long Lions victim.
When our son was born, before the umbilical cord was cut from him ( and after my “Welcome Little One” speech.) I said to him, " The Lions will never win a Superbowl. They.Will.Never.Win.The.Big.One. It is OK to pick another team to root for."
The nurses all cracked up.
My husband looked at me in disbelief, " You don’t know that…they could win it this year…"
It’s so cute when he is so optimistic.
The important point concerning picking a new team to root for is that since 1990 the Browns have sucked (even during the 3 years the franchise was in suspended animation. 
)
Even though I haven’t followed the Browns too closely since they’ve been reincarnated, their new coach Romeo Crennel (sp?) looks like he knows what he’s doing. Having said that, if I was picking a team to dump the Lions for I’d look for a front-running contender like Pittsburgh rather than a potential up and comer like Cleveland.
On second thought JJ, why don’t you forget about pro football entirely and just follow the St. Louis Cardinals or the Michigan Wolverines?
The St. Louis Cardinals are now in Arizona!!! I’d strongly suggest following them.
Unless you meant baseball…The St. Louis Baseball Cards will probably make it to the World Series, but I’m sure the AL champ will beat them easily.
Meh. They’re so two-dimensional.
I’ve been a 49ers’ fan since I was in the 4th grade, and I will stick with them no matter how much they suck until the day I die. I too suggest sticking with the Lions, no matter how much they suck.
But if I were to pick a new team, I’d pick the Jaguars, just for the simple fact that I like the colors on the uniform.
It just so happens that I like the 49ers colors on their away uniform.
Screw the NFL. Go NCAA. And may I recommend to you the University of California Golden Bears?
Thank you.
How you figure that? They score runs, they’re great on defense and the pitching staff is incredibly good.
They’re not gonna lose to whoever the AL sends up there, especially if it’s Boston again.
I meant that “baseball cards” are printed on flat surfaces.
And no, I’m not funny in real life either.
D’oh. Should have caught that one.
:smack:
The Ravens are a solid choice, actually. But before you go listening to the hype about how great their drafts are, consider the name “Kyle Boller”. (Apparently, they have unmatched drafting acumen on defense only. On offense they’re as bad as the Browns.)
A buddy of mine grew up a Browns fan, and is still one to this day, which means he’s been a fan for over two decades. I saw him recently, and I was struck by the fact that I’ve never seen a sports fan with lower morale regarding his team in my entire life. But yeah, you’ve summed up my feelings regarding the Colts and Rams quite nicely. Basically, the old guard teams are the ones that are both a) historically good, and b) already deeply rooted in their current cities 50+ years ago. The Colts, by all rights, should be included, especially considering their rich history…they did, after all, win the “greatest game ever played”. (The dirty rat bastards.) But honestly, that move was an abomination.
I believe the NFL itself agrees with my assessment. Were the Bears, Giants, Steelers, Redskins, or Packers moved into new divisions during the recent realignment? Of course not. Were their divisions even modified? Nope. Their divisions were basically kept intact, with the “odd man out” being cast off to lesser divisions. Bye bye Cardinals, you get the artificially created NFC West, which is composed of a former NFC East, AFC West, and two NFC West teams. (One of which is the Rams. That’s a hint that the Rams aren’t an old guard team.) Look at the Colts, cast off from the AFC East and into a division of newbies. The Titans, Texans, and Jaguars? That’s like a slap in the face. One could say that the Steelers division was tinkered with, but there were six friggin’ teams in the old AFC Central…and the oldest team to keep was banished to the river of denial. The new Oilers are not the Oilers at all; the Titans share nothing in history or spirit with that pathetic excuse for a franchise. The old Browns was the most logical choice to keep.
Agreed about the Whale. I didn’t think that question was directed to me, but I’m happy to explain why I’m a NY fan instead of Boston. Mainly, it’s because I live 1 hour from NY and 3 hours from Boston. While I do get all Patriots games on the Hartford affiliates, I do not get all the Bruins / BoSox / Celtics games. So it would be a half-a-city fanship at best, and it’s not even particularly close to me.
Growing up in a suburb of Chicago, my parents were Bears fans, who became Giants fans in 86, about two years after the family moved to CT. I did not really seriously follow the NFL until preseason of the 90 season, and the buddy who got me really into it was a Giants fan. Never has there been a more satisfying football season…starting 10-0, losing the battle of 10-1’s to the 49ers, losing our star QB for the season and having the backup come in late in the season. (The Hos was the Energizer friggin’ Bunny; I’ve never seen a player take as much brutal punishment as he did at the hands of the Eagles that year and keep getting up every play.) Meeting the 49ers again in the Conference Championship and clinging to the old-school, ball-control, punch-them-in-the-mouth Parcells style of play, barely spoiling their three-peat with 5 field goals and grim determination. (“I hurt all over” - Joe Montana) Then capping it off with the actual greatest game ever played. (“WIDE RIGHT!”) There were no mistakes in that game; zero turnovers, very few penalties. Two diametrically opposed philosophies played to perfection; in the words of Steve Sabol, it was played how all Superbowls should be played. If you get a chance to see that half-hour Superbowl show, by all means, watch it. It truly was an inspired game. The clock eating drives of the Giants. Spermin’ Thurman positively lit it up on the ground. The K-Gun and the novel 2-3-6 defense that stopped it…amazing stuff. To quote the “voice of God”, even the final missed kick was more poignant than pathetic. Poor Scotty didn’t choke…that was a difficult kick, and he tried his best. Even still, the poor guy’s phone never rang again. How many other Superbowls inspired a friggin’ movie about how the game affected a fan? (Buffalo '66 is a personal favorite.)
I have bled blue since that season, and I always will. Parcells could do no wrong in my eyes, so I was briefly a Patriots fan (I still wear my Patriots hat on occasion), and have been a Jets fan since the year he went to the Jets.
Many people think of the Giants and Jets as the Yankees and Mets or Rangers and Islanders. Nothing could be further from the truth. They play in the same building; the players and coaches get along quite well, and they never play against each other; they’re not even in the same conference, much less division rivals. (Actually, Fassel & Edwards got on well, and could be seen stopping by on the sidelines during each other’s games. Coughlin and Edwards? Not so much.)
Sorry, that ended up really long, but I love going down that particular memory lane.
The long and short of it is that I believe when picking a team to follow, you should only choose a local team. Period. Go with either the Bucs or Jags. Being a displaced fan sucks balls…just ask my BIL the Steelers fan, or my buddy the Bills fan, neither of whom have been able to watch much of their team’s preseason. (Or even the regular season.) I, OTOH, have watched every minute of both the Giants and Jets preseason, and get to hear all the local opinons and commentary on radio and television. And when I wear my NY hats out to the store during a playoff run, I all of a sudden have “teammates” in pretty much every convenience store and gas station I walk into. It’s good to root for the home team(s). (December '02 was a magical time in these parts, but not for displaced fans.)
I see where people are saying that you shouldn’t abandon your team but then I thought, come on, it’s the Lions we’re talking about here. They’ve only won a single post-season game in like the last 50 years. It’s not like a Packers fan giving up because of a weak season.
However, I like the idea of picking up a favorite AFC team, rather than completely abandoning the Lions. I’ve always been partial towards the Steelers, maybe they are my AFC team. To me, the Steelers evoke images of grainy NFL Films footage of men of steel in classic black-and-gold uniforms clashing in the mud and snow, the way football was meant to be played. Or maybe the Texans. Get in close to the ground floor. The advantage the Steelers have is that I’ll be able to catch at least some of their games. The only time I ever see the Lions is when they lose on Thanksgiving.
I wish I could go with a local team but I really don’t like the Bucs or Dolphins, and I tried to root for the Jaguars, but couldn’t. I guess they’re my favorite local team by default, since I hate them the least.
Stick with the Lions. There’s a *reason * you’re from Detroit, and you must honor it by carrying your Lion/Red Wings/Tigers/Pistons fanhood with you, wherever you go. Yes, God wants you to be a Lions fan.
They will rise again. The day will come when they stand at the top of the mountain, surveying all that lies before them. And we fans, who suffered through the lean decades, who waited patiently for Bill Ford to sell them to someone who cares, we will leap joyfully from our wheelchairs, wave our walkers in the air. . .and then sit down for our meds, exhausted but satisfied.
Scott Norwood played the following year for Buffalo.
One really cool thing I remember was the rally held in front of Buffalo city hall the day after the game. There was a small parade of the players and thousands of Bills fans showed up. Marv Levy and Jim Kelly made some remarks and from somewhere in the crowd a chant started;
*Scotty
Scotty
Scotty *
They kept it up until he stepped up to the microphone.
In a lot of cities (I’m looking at you Philadelphia) would have damn near tore him limb from limb, my fellow Buffalonians cheered him.