Help me plan my garden

Cafe Society
1

As a new homeowner, one of the things I’m really looking forward to is planting a garden this year. (Didn’t get moved in on time last year to do this, but have lots of time this year.) There’s only one thing…I’ve never done this before.

I’m getting a mailbox full of seed catalogues and am making lists to determine what I want to plant. Last year, we covered a space in the yard (about five feet by 20 feet, although I could go much bigger if I wanted to do so) to get the grass to die off (which it did), and my compost pile has been generating compost for about six months now.

So, now I need to plan what I’m going to plant and where in the garden, but I have clue how to do this. I know I can get soil testing done at my local University Cooperative Extension (which I’ll do before I plant), and I know that I can determine what gets planted when by looking on the back of the seed packet.

What’s the best recommendations you can give to a beginner gardener? Can anyone recommend a “must see” beginner gardening site? Better yet, recommend a “garden planning” website that I can tell it what I want to plant, and then it will tell me what to plant where? I’ve come across a lot of sites, and there’s a lot of information, but it’s starting to get VERY overwhelming and at this point, I’m nearing throwing some seeds into the ground and hoping for the best (which I really don’t want to do).

2

The first thing you’ll need to do is determine what kind of garden your proposed location can support (for example, is it sunny/shady? Good/bad drainage?). You’ll need to prepare the soil (once conditions are suitable, i.e spring after the soil has dried out sufficiently to work in colder locales). Seed starting is a whole other area of consideration - you can germinate seeds to transplantable size in a sunny window or under a simple shop light fluorescent fixture, but a little basic research is in order here too).

Help will be easier to provide if you tell us more about what you want to do and where you’re located.

There are lots of good forums at www.gardenweb.com. Ones you might want to check out in particular deal with seed starting, soil, annuals, perennials and vegetables. Websites run by county or state extension services in your area could be helpful too.

3

Can you tell us where you are? :slight_smile:
Some of the most common, easiest plants are carrots, peas, beans, potatoes, zucchini, cucumbers, beets, corn (if your growing period is long enough), radishes, and lettuce. You could plant some herbs, too - dill, thyme, basil, etc. Expect your first year to be a learning year - we planted a garden in our yard last year for our first summer here, and I’ll be doing things significantly different this year (I had the peas along the fence, and they didn’t get nearly enough sun). The seed packages will also tell you what to do - how much sun they need (most veggies need full sun), how deep to plant them, how far apart to plant them, when to plant them.

4

Forget corn, at least until you have a couple seasons under your belt. Your planting area is too narrow for corn. Corn is wind pollinated and is best planted in large blocks, like a square. If you try to plant a couple of thin rows it just doesn’t work out.

If you want to plant beans, wait until the soil temperture is up to 60 degrees, not the temp of the air, the soil. Peas you can plant anytime after the end of hard freezing.

We really need to know where you are before offering real advice. There are micro climates within the other general climates. It matters.

5

Oh, and 20 by 5 feet is plenty big enough for someone just getting started in gardening.

A big mistake many beginners make is trying to do too much at first, and getting overwhelmed by chores and setbacks. Attempting to cultivate a large area right off the bat could mean excessive time spent weeding, watering etc.

Go with good soil prep, easy crops (for your area, whatever it might be) and a small garden at first. Growing in containers is also a good way to start.

6

Moving from IMHO to Cafe Society, where threads about gardening grow.

7

All good ideas–thanks (and keep them coming!).

I already have the location planned for the garden (see my comment above about killing the grass over the summer for the garden spot). It gets full sun all day (which is one of the reasons why I chose it), and is well drained (no muddy, soft or wet spots). The grass, before I killed it in that spot, grew beautifully.

I already know WHAT I’m going to plant, but I was hoping for some help with what to put where. Do I line up the tomatoes all in one spot? Can I “layer” some plants? (ie. put some in the middle of the garden, some on the edges, and if so, which ones do I put there?) That’s why I was hoping to find a website, or even some software that would help me with laying out what to plant where.

The garden spot is about 5 feet by 20, but I can go bigger if I want. I’m trying to decide if I need to go bigger depending on what I’d like to plant. I’m in Southcentral Pennsylvania (York County), and I’ve checked on the zones. But, still need to know when the seeds should go in (and in which order–is there an order? Do I plant some seeds sooner or some later?)

So far, on my list of plantings are:
Several different types of heirloom tomatoes
one type of Okra
two different types of bush (green) beans
one type of sugar snap peas
three different types of peppers
one type of English cucumber
Purple potatoes (only because I’ve never had them)
Beets, if I can figure out how to grow them
Onions, but not sure how much space I’ll need or how many onions to plant
I’d love to grow kale, but don’t know if I have the space (or how much space I need)

This doesn’t include any herbs because they’ll go in a seperate space in the yard (I’m planning on a herb garden closer to the house and have that planned already because I’ve grown herbs in pots for years), or melons, which will border seperate flower beds.

I also have several different flower beds, most of which were here when I bought the house, and they’ve stayed as-is for the most part. (I wanted to get a full year of growth so I know what was coming up.)

I won’t be germinating seeds indoors because I don’t have a location that’s warm and sunny enough to successfully do so, except in my living room, and I’m not having that in my living room. (Plus, I’m pretty sure my cats would have a grand time digging up/eating seedlings.)

8

That’s not entirely true; I remember my childhood in a small town north of Saskatoon where every garden had a couple of rows of corn. I don’t bother with it in Calgary because our growing season is too short (I shop for my seeds by length of time to maturity here). Maybe sunflowers instead of corn; sunflowers are easy to grow and you feel like you’ve really accomplished something, with those massive plants nodding in the sun.

I’m going to try something with my veggie garden this year - planting it like a flower bed instead of in rows. I’ll see how that goes.

9

I’m pretty much in the middle of corn country here, and can buy corn down the street for a song, so I’ll forgo corn this planting season. (Same with zuchinni and squash. Although I like it, from what I understand it takes some space and besides, I can buy a squash or zuchinni for 25 cents at the peak of the season.)

10

My first bit of advice to you is not to be overly concerned with anything - if stuff grows in your soil now probably what you plant will grow, too. It might not yield award-winning quantities of vegetables, but hey, don’t stress. This is your learning year, right?

I’d suggest starting with that. Really, you don’t want to get too big too quickly and feel overwhelmed. Especially if you also have flower beds and an herb bed planned.

I’m trying to decide if I need to go bigger depending on what I’d like to plant. I’m in Southcentral Pennsylvania (York County), and I’ve checked on the zones. But, still need to know when the seeds should go in (and in which order–is there an order? Do I plant some seeds sooner or some later?

[quote]

Some plants can go in just after your last frost (some case even survive a light frost) and others need a certain minimum warmth.

Tomatoes, okra, beans, peppers and cucumbers are all “warm loving plants” - as someone mentioned, past frost danger and soil temp 60 degrees.

Peas, potatoes, beets, and onions are more cool tolerant. They will go in earlier.

Most seed packets will have instructions on the back regarding what climate zone you’re in and when to plant.

Potatoes will require some sort of ground cover/mulch. You lay that down between the plants so the stems and leaves are above it, but it entirely covers the ground between them otherwise. Straw or hay are traditional, some people use shredded newspapers or leaves, I use lawn clippings because I mow lawns for money in the summer and I have the clippings.

Easy. Insert seeds in ground as directions specify. Wait. Watch beets grow. They’re reasonably hardly and pretty easy. You can mulch between them as potatoes if you want but it’s not necessary.

If you have space for the rest you have space for some kale. It’s hardy and frost tolerant, although it slows down in hot weather. If you harvest it by taking the outer leaves and leaving some on the stalk the plants will keep growing for months, giving you kale all summer (at least potentially).

Some things you can plant first, like peas and radishes and green onions and when you harvest them you can replace then with things like beans, as it will be warm enough for them by then.

Just remember - not everything will survive. Some local critter will eat some, the birds will make off with a bit, some neighbor kid will run through (unless your property is fenced), you might step on a plant, sometimes something just up and dies… I don’t care how skilled or experienced a gardener is, not everything survives. Accept this and move on.

11

My mom saw my potato plants in August when they were big and strapping, and she admonished me for not beating up the plants - apparently you’re supposed to stress the green part of the potato plants so they put more energy into growing their tubers. I did not know that.

Ain’t that the truth. Our saskatoon berries were just ripe and I was going out to pick them when they were all gone - birds or squirrels ate them all. Funnily enough, we had lettuce out the yinyang this year, but no rabbits in the yard to eat it (we cat-proofed the back yard, and I suspect the rabbits couldn’t get under the fence).

12

Oh yeah, I forgot about the cats…

I had a feral cat that was destroying my garden. It wasn’t eating it - it was using it as a litter box and destroying plants when covering its deposits.

A friend gave me a jar of coyote piss. Really. Little granules soaked with genuine coyote piss. By sprinkling it around the cat got the idea the local coyotes had commandeered the litter box and got lost.

Works best in areas that actually have coyotes (which we do).

13

Definitely keep an eye on critters. The first year in my last house, I couldn’t figure out why every single tomato, pepper and pea within about 20" off the ground just …disappeared.
It was a mystery until the day I looked out the kitchen window and saw our chihuahua happily snacking away on his own personal salad bar (At least that’s how he saw it). After that, I just sort of figured that since he was a member of the family, and scared off the evil bunnies quite effectively, he was entitled to nosh here and there.

If you have a similar vegetarian-leaning pooch, I find that plants in containers are very effective - not only are they physically higher and separated, but dogs seem to grasp the idea that it’s different and “off-limits” more readily.

14

As was said above, this will be a learning year for you. Last year was our first vegetable garden year (though we’d both done a few tomatoes and peppers before).

We planted rows so that the narrow end of each one was facing the sunrise and sunset. We figured that all the plants would get sun on their tops, and nothing tall would completely shade out the short stuff.

Plant some radishes. They grow fast and taste great. I recommend the Easter Egg mix, they had a much better flavor than some other varieties we tried.

If you are anywhere near Illinois, be prepared for your cucurbitaceae to fail. There’s a blight, and it got all our zucchini, cucumbers, pumpkins, and gourds last year. Very disappointing. You might get lucky and have a clean location, or you might not.

Our favorite crops were mixed lettuces and swiss chard. They’re both pick-and-come-again and can be planted in a small, dense patch. Awesomeness.

Okra is a serious time investment. It needs to be picked over every day or the pods will get too big and tough. Also, it’s itchy. You’ll want to pick it last, then run into the house and shower.

Cage your tomatoes. Give vines a LOT of room. The purple and white striped eggplant is EXCELLENT, both for eating and for yields. Our peppers didn’t start yielding ripe fruit till September.

Mulch between rows. Set up a soaker hose system.

15

Some good info in this article.

I think you have a few too many things planned for the space you currently have allotted. In a 20x5 ft space I would plant 2 rows of 10 tomato or bell pepper plants sized with maybe a row of peas or beans in between. You need room to get between the rows to pick and weed without damaging your plants. How many folks are going to be eating from this garden? Are you planning to can/freeze any excess?

Our homeowner’s association won’t allow us to have a garden unless there is a fence so other people can’t see it. I’m going to be sneaky this year and plant my garden as an ornamental flower bed. Peas and beans need a trellis or something else to climb on. Cucumbers can also be coaxed to grow up, saving you space.

The plants are going to get bigger than you think they will. A tomato plant will grow to 2 and a half foot diameter and you don’t want to crowd them too much. (Definitely cage them as soon as you plant. Don’t wait till they are falling over to stake them…you’ll damage the root system and probably break some branches trying to tie them off.) Do some research to see what the mature size of the plants you want to grow will be. Taller plants go on the north side of your space progressing down to shorter plants on the south side.

16

Buy this book. I’ve been gardening for more than 20 years, and this is still my go-to reference.

17

Hockey Monkey said what I was going to say.

Plan for 4 feet (up or out) for the cucumbers.

Tomatoes vines can top 7 feet easy and a bush can spread out almost as much. I have a 6x6 plot where I grow two vines and two bush. They always over-grown their allotted space, which is why they now have they’re own dedicated plot.

Pepper plants don’t get as big as the tomatoes or cukes.

I know grow potatoes in large garbage bags, which leads me to believe they need more ‘down’ room than ‘wide’ room.

You should plant kale very late in the summer or maybe even fall. They taste better after a frost.

The onions should be in rows a foot apart with about 10 inches in between them.

18

Have you tried typing “vegetable planting schedule” into Google? Looks to be pretty helpful.

19

Plant more than you need and thin out as needed.
It will be hard to pull up the less healthy and desirable plants but since you can’t go back and plant more when there is a problem (late frost, excessive rain, bugs) it is better to be able to cull the worst out than to be done for the year with that plant.

Plant in stages, some early, more in a few weeks, etc.
If the early crop fails you will not be done for the summer and you will not have all the plants ready for harvest at ther same time. You will be harvesting the plants at their peak every two weeks.

20

That’s a really good idea that I keep running into and forgetting about. I’ll have to make myself a note or an iCal reminder or something. :slight_smile: