Help settle an argument where I KNOW I'm right, but am not believed (about Cribbage scoring)

The Game Room
1

I’m making this topic mostly so I can show my mom all of the replies saying she’s wrong, since she doesn’t believe me, apparently.

In cribbage, say you have a hand of J, J, J, and 3.

Mom says you only get SIX points for that hand, six points for the three of a kind.

I said "No, you get more points. You get six points for the three of a kind and then you get points for each different pair of jacks too. So one pair, two points, another pair, two points, and a third pair, two points.

Mom says “No, that’s not how you play cribbage. Once you have a card count for points, you can’t use it in another combination. You already used those three jacks for the six points, so they can’t count for pairs.”
I told mom, suffice to say, she’s nuts and that’s not how you play cribbage. ALL COMBINATIONS count, I said. I went on to say “Now if you want to play a MORE SIMPLIFIED VERSION of it, where you can’t use a card if it’s already in a scoring combination, that’s up to you…but in ACTUAL, REAL CRIBBAGE, you can score both for the three of a kind AND each pair. Just because you scored six points for the three jacks doesn’t mean you can’t also count this pair of jacks, this pair of jacks, and this pair of jacks for points.”

So, tell me, who is right in this fight? I already know I am, but some verification would be nice.

2

You’re both wrong. You get six points for that combination, which is two points for each of the three ways to make a pair of jacks. There’s no separate score for three of a kind.

3

6 points, provided you get nothing from the flipped card.

All combinations do indeed count. A ‘three of a kind’ doesn’t give any additional bonuses other than its component three pairs. There are only three pairs of Jacks there, for a grand total of 2 times 3 = six points.

You appear to be trying to count those six points twice? Quite frankly, I don’t follow your logic at all here.

4

Huh? Three of a kind is called a pair royal and it’s worth six points. What am I missing here?

5

JJJ3

You get two points for the first pair of jacks, two points for the second pair, and two points for the first and third jack.

And then you get SIX points because you have three jacks, three of a kind…a pair royal, which is six points in itself.

What is wrong with that scoring?

6

Eh, I’d classify mom’s statement as more right than wrong, it’s simply faster to say six points for the three of a kind rather than fully enumerating each of the three component pairs every single time you see a three of a kind. Under normal circumstances that would simply be verbal shorthand that both parties understood, and as usual for such a verbal shorthand it’s valid for the opponent to request the full context if it’s unclear.

7

You appear to be inventing an extra six points for this ‘pair royale’ that don’t exist in any cribbage ruleset I’ve ever seen. Where did you make that up from?

8

I didn’t make it up from anywhere, a pair royal is a common term in Cribbage.

9

What you’re missing is that reason a pair royal is worth six points is because there are two points for each of the three ways to make a regular pair from it. Your mother is right and you are wrong about that, as clearly shown by my link describing how cribbage is scored. Your mother is wrong that cards can only be part of one scoring combination, but she is right that they can only be used as one n-of-a-kind combination, which might be what she actually said, rather than what you heard.

10

This is the way I’ve always played – a 3 of a kind is not a thing, but you get 2 + 2 + 2 for each combination of pairs. I see based on your link that someone at some point must have just developed a shortcut for that logic and called it a “pair royal,” but it’s just semantics. 6 points, OP is wrong.

eta: From the wiki:

11

Yep. A pair royal is worth 6 points and only 6 points.

12

2-3-3-4 is worth eight points. You could say “a run of three, another run of three, and a pair makes eight”, or you could say “a double-run for eight”. It’s just quicker to do it the second way, and experienced players will recognize the term “double-run”. But you don’t get to count it both ways; it’s not worth sixteen points.

Same thing with a “pair royal”, it’s just a quicker way of counting the three pairs.

ETA: Still gonna show this thread to your mom?

13

The part that I was referring to as made up was the six points in excess of 2 x 3 = six that you were awarding to said ‘pair royal’. (Though, admittedly, that particular phrase didn’t ring any bells.)

14

Six points for three of a kind, not twelve. You don’t get six points for the pair royal (three “pairs” made out of three cards) and an additional six points for a “three of a kind”. Provided the turn card does nothing for you, including Nobs, the listed hand would score as six points only.

15

What do you think a double pair royal is worth, Idle Thoughts? Is it 12 points, or 12+12 points, or 12 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 points? And if you really think it’s the last one, don’t you think that’s kind of a game-breaking way to score cribbage?

16

I get what is being said, but I don’t think some people are getting what I’m saying. It’s not me saying “I’m counting the points twice”, it’s me saying “I thought all combinations were separate from each other”. So the points you get for each pair is separate from the points you get for the three of a kind.

The way I was taught Cribbage (which I’m finding out that THAT way might have not been the right way, in fact) is this:

JJJ3 would get you:
Six points for three jacks.
Then two points each for each PAIR of jacks. Like, separate from the points you already counted for the three of a kind.
So, having, say, four J’s, a hand of JJJJ
That’d be:

–twelve points for four of a kind (four jacks)
–six points for Jacks 1, 2 and 3…six points for Jacks 2, 3, and 4…six points for Jacks 1, 3 and 4…and six points for jacks 1, 2, and 3.
–and then two points for all of the different combos of PAIRS of jacks (which is twelve).

Total number of points for that rare and lucky hand: 42 points.
That’s how I was taught. Seems it was me taught the wrong way instead, oops.

And yes, I’m still going to show her this topic. I was wrong and I can admit when I’m wrong.

17

Very much so. Largest possible scoring hand is 29. It consists of a hand of J555 with another 5 cut and that cut 5 is the same suit as the jack.

Four J-5 combos gives 15 four ways so you get 8 points.
With four 5’s you can get 15 another four ways so you get another 8 points.
Then four 5’s also gives you a double pair royal which is the same thing as 6 pair for 12 points.
Then you get 1 point for nobs.

8 + 8 + 12 + 1 = 29.

18

For the record, the (large–12-14) group of Canadian friends who taught me how to play all used to play using that scoring system, so I’m not the only one out there who plays that way, must be a variation they all came up with or something.

19

Cribbage boards in the shape of 29 are widely available, as it is the highest score possible in one hand… A score I have never personally witnessed.

20

I have always played that 3 of a kind was worth 6 points because it is 3 combos of pairs. When I play Cribbage on Pogo.com that’s how they score it too.