"Many industry insiders blame the conundrum on a growing social trend known as herbivore men: Those who shun sex and traditional masculine values in favour of a quiet, uncompetitive lifestyle. ‘Mentally, men have become weaker,’ said actress Yuko Shiraki. ‘They’re less macho, less proactive about sex.’
“Celebrated director Tohjiro agrees Japanese men are going soft. ‘I’ve been in this business for 27 years and you can see the increase in herbivore males,’ he said. ‘Men aren’t hungry anymore. They’ve lost their desire. Everything’s on a plate for them. It wasn’t like that for my generation. If we got a banana or a pineapple, we went crazy with joy. These days, men don’t get excited by anything. The same applies to sex and attitude towards women and relationships. They just click on the internet for it’.”
Siam Sam posted the above quote on another thread, I have noticed the same thing in American males maybe not to such a great degree. A lot of married men I know seem to fall into this category.
It makes me think of a group of African lions, they start off maturity with a large, lustrous black mane. If they challenge and loose the main looses luster, becomes lighter in color and less full. After so many losses he looses the mane almost allthogether and becomes more female like in that he teams up with other like males and they go through life happily being bachelors.
Are males in general finding themselves in more submissive rolls when it comes to career, social and romantic relationships? I feel like they are. I have personally combatted this by finding a social activity that I can compete and stand out in to some degree. The confidence gained there helps to carry me though other areas of life maintaining a less submissive roll in life.
Is this phenomena a real thing that males may be facing today? Is this something we should recognise and take steps to combat?
“Herbivore men” sounds like a strange label. I wouldn’t want to annoy a bull moose, elephant or steer.
I haven’t really noticed the same “submissiveness” (submissive to who – women? other men?) but given that it’s an actress and a director talking about it, this doesn’t sound like high grade sociology either.
Could very well be confirmation bias on my part I admit. But, I have noticed in a lot of my social venues a lot of the males seem to take a less dominant roll in conversations and not be as challenging or adamant about their opinions as men used to be. Sometimes to the point where I start to feel uncomfortable that I might be overly dominant in my attitude and I have to force myself to soften up. I don't have this problem with guys who seemed to have made their mark in one way or another. The confidence gained in whatever successful area they might have seems to carry through and possibly even elevate the testosterone.
I think you’ve got to separate these roles out to some degree, but I think there may be a general pattern of folks looking for relationships that are partnerships rather than dominant/submissive relationships. Certainly it’s the pattern in romantic relationships: a lot more dudes today are comfortable with the idea of being equals with their mate rather than being the boss.
Another pattern is that as society is more comfortable with women taking positions of authority, relatively more men will find themselves in a role in which they’re under someone else’s authority–not because there are more men in absolute numbers in subordinate positions in the business world, but because in absolute numbers there are fewer men in top positions.
My question is, why is this a bad thing? What evidence do we have that it leads to any unwanted effects? Some random Japanese actress’s expressed annoyance doesn’t exactly send me running for the hills.
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My question is, why is this a bad thing? What evidence do we have that it leads to any unwanted effects? Some random Japanese actress’s expressed annoyance doesn’t exactly send me running for the hills.
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It may not be a bad thing, it may be a very neccessary adaptation that males are successfully making. This may not be true for all though. It makes me think of the issue with racial bias where black males have almost grown to accept that they haa lesser chance of succeeding or being offered opportunity. No doubt there is some resentment and anger here. Any male any color is subject to resentment if he feels he is being forced into a submissive roll. Possibly anywhere from 10% to 30% of males may feel this to one degree or another at different stage in his life.
Every day life becoming less of a dick waving contest? Yeah, I’m not sure if I can see the downside here. Just an indication that society is, thankfully, progressing in some ways.
And because I think it’s not a typo, and because I think you’re not talking about unrisen bread products, you want to refer to submissive roles, not rolls.
I’ve seen a few iterations of this argument lately. For some reason I want to blame Mad Men. I have no idea if it’s true or not, because I’ve never seen the show, but I’d swear they’re related.
I’m sorry, are we really taking the maunderings on sociological trends of a porn actress and director seriously? Shouldn’t we really wait until Farrah Abraham weighs in? After all, she’s both a porn star and a mother, so her opinion should be twice as valuable.
sorry, but if your source comes from Japan it can safely be ignored. they’ve got their own unique set of problems there. not the least of which being they approach gender roles in much the same way as 1950’s America. the times I’ve been there on business (with two very much Japan, Inc. companies) I did notice that in the workplace women were pretty much only receptionists, secretaries, and window dressing.
It’s the shipping industry. You can transport tropical fruits like pineapples and bananas to markets like Japan easily nowadays so modern consumers just aren’t going to be excited by them. It seems like a really strange issue to draw a conclusion about sexuality from.
Seriously, this sounds a lot like a “kids these days” argument.
Not really civilization has changed considerably in the last century. I am certainly not the one to point out all the ways it has changed but it does seem pretty clear our gender roles have gone through some changes. Animals have their way of adapting to this just as people must have. To say that our horomones and testosterone levels are not affected by these changes is presumptuous. It may not be a bad thing, it may be hard for others, thats what I am looking to see discussed.
The term “Herbivore men” does not refer to submissive men, but rather, sexually passive men. The original term which was coined in Japan is, “Soushokukei-danshi”, which literally translates to “grass-eating men”, and is a relatively new word. This was in counter to the much older term, “Nikushokukei-danshi”, or “meat-eating men”, i.e., carnivores. Meat-eaters were men who were always “on the hunt” and actively pursued women, whereas grass-eaters are the opposite and don’t pursue women for sex or a relationship, because of lack of interest or confidence.
Interestingly, the female columnist who originally coined the term meant it to be positive, as a way to identify a new generation of young, sensitive men who treated women as peers, weren’t aggressive to get them in the sack, and didn’t look at them just as a sexual objects.
However, a few years later, a popular fashion/lifestyle magazine marketed towards young women used the term to “blame” these men for the rise in single women and couples marrying later in life, because they weren’t asking women out. At the same time, the media was “blaming” these same men for Japan’s stagnant economy, because they weren’t buying cars and houses and spending it on clothes and personal grooming products, instead.
The term now generally refers to “unmasculine” men who don’t initiate sex or relationships with women because they don’ t want to be rejected or find it a hassle, and rather spend their time and money on their personal interests because it’s less stressful and easier. It has nothing to do with men becoming submissive or being put in that role.
I wonder how widespread this is. A psychologist from Stanford, Phillip Zimbardo, warns about the porn and video addiction in young men. He thinks its a growing crisis. (FWIW: I think this is the same guy that did the Stanford Prison Experiment. I have no idea whether he’s a legitimate researcher or publicity hound trying to sell his book. Hopefully someone here can shed some light).
Also interesting is the reaction to this on Slashdot. Granted, Slashdot is ground zero for nerds, but I was surprised at the number of commenters who said they’d grown tired of dealing with women and preferred their computer monitor to all the hassle of dating.
I wonder what will happen when really good, immersive VR porn becomes widely available?
