:rolleyes:
Please, we’re talking about the real world here. Advertisers are going to advertise even though nobody looks at the ad? You try selling that model to GM, P&G, or Coca-Cola.
“Hey, I’ve got this great show. Now I can damn near guarantee that nobody is going to watch your ads because it’s the most stolen TV show on the internet, but advertising rates per 30-second block is $65,000. How many do you want?”
:crickets:
Sometimes, doing what’s right doesn’t have a utilitarian benefit. I gave out 100 heating pads (hand warmers) to homeless people last night… didn’t do me a damn bit of good, not a single utilitarian benefit to my life… but I still did it.
Yeah, I forgot to add a “just”, as in:
"Reality TV shows don’t exist just because they’re cheaper, they exist because diminishing revenues… "
But it helped the homeless people obviously, so there was a benefit.
Now if you had said “if you want to watch the show, then watch it legally, through broadcast or on their website”, I’d have no problem with that. But if he genuinely has no interest in watching the show except through the method he’s using, he’s essentially a non-factor as far as that show’s ratings went, and it doesn’t harm them if he continues to watch. No one benefits from him stopping.
Unless he’s secretly using that as an excuse, and if forced to, he would watch it on TV. Then they are being denied ad revenue.
If we’re talking about why non-USAians are torrenting US shows, how about why non UKers download Brit shows. OK, why do I download Brit shows?:
[ul]
[li]Unavailable at all in Canada for broadcast or on DVD (Spaced for many a moon, Being Human now)[/li][li]Available, but in standard/completely shit def (Doctor Who/Torchwood/anything else on Space in Canada)[/li][li]Edited for commercials (Doctor Who on CBC-unacceptable! Grrrrr)[/li][/ul]
The last Torchwood series was available on DVD about a month post broadcast. I don’t know how well it sold, but I sure would have bought it instead of torrenting if the series didn’t make me want to commit hari-kiri after watching it 
Buying a region free DVD player and buying from the UK is more of a dollar commitment than most shows are worth. For US shows? I’ll rent DVD’s, then buy if I like the show. I also watch some shows on broadcast, torrent in case I want to watch later, then end up getting the DVD anyhow (Heroes, Dollhouse), so someone’s getting my ad viewing eyes and my DVD dollars. Streaming isn’t much of an option for me- my connection is such that I spend 2 minutes waiting through a buffering for every minute of viewing time, and the Great Wall of Hulu is too much of a PITA to try to defeat.
Long post short, some people torrent because it is not just the best way to view, sometimes its the only way to view
top gear
Now that’s on BBC Canada!
That’s why NBC is airing Jay Leno five nights a week at 10pm. So far it hasn’t canceled anything worth watching.
And the best shows are being aired on cable for smaller audiences. The profits aren’t as high as network TV in the 80’s, but you don’t see anyone shying away from them.
I won’t die if I don’t steal shows? Is that your best argument? No one at the networks will die if I steal their shows either.
And my life will be diminished. I’m going to have a class scheduled when Lost is going to air in Feb. There is no way I’m waiting a week for Hulu to post the episode. Sorry, it’s just not going to happen. I want to talk about the show with everyone else and I want to watch it spoiler free. If there is a way from me to do that I’m going to take advantage of it.
Are these figures only for torrent downloads? There are various other “non-legal” methods (online streaming, p2p, file hosting sites, etc.) that should be taken into account.
I would like an example of a show that was cancelled due to lost ad revenue from piracy.
Well, any show that was on the bubble but had piracy that represented a significant fraction of its viewer base would probably qualify. Are you taking the position that not a single person, or at least a significant group, if denied their preferred means of viewing the show wouldn’t turn to watching it on broadcast, through the network’s website, or buy the DVDs?
I torrent shows because I can’t stand to wait a full week for the next episode. I also can’t stand to wait an entire year (or more) before they are aired in Europe. Even if they were aired in Europe, I’d probably still won’t watch, as they always show at times I’m not watching TV. The times that I stay home for a TV show are over. I do not like commercials, and downloading shows is nothing different than video taping the show and fast forwarding through them, as we all did 20 years ago.
I realise that this is akin to stealing. I also do not care about this. I feel that it’s the networks responsibility to find other methods of making money. Cinemas do this by showing 3D movies which you can’t download (yet). Musicians give live performances, which give an experience you can’t download. Every other entertainment branche are adapting to the internet age. TV shows should follow suit.
Newtorks are going to have to come up with a different revenue plan. Personally I think we’ll go back to an advertising closer to what was in the 50’s. Heroes brought to you by Ford, where product placement during the show is how the advertising goes. Like we’ve seen in Eureka! on Sci-Fi, and Chuck on NBC. That’s the only viable method that I can see. I torrent because most of the TV time in our house is stuff the kids are watching. So my total time per night that I can watch something is about an hour or so. But I do have a lot of time when I travel, so I grab the last couple of episodes of shows that I’m interested in, and watch during the flight, or some evenings if I don’t have any other work to do. I like the Hulu business model, and I’d probably watch more that way except that the netbook I take with me has a crappy network card and has a tough time streaming Hulu as a stutter-free experience. Now if NBC or some of the other networks offered their shows for some sort of reasonable fee in downloadable form, I’d consider ditching DirectTV and paying them directly. But it’d have to be no more than $10 a month…and that’s pushing it. I think what will ultimatly happen is that being in the entertainment industry will be something you can do and earn a decent living, but you won’t be able to become a mega millionair. Again, like it was in the 40’s and 50’s. Just MHO of course.
Why don’t they simply do more product placement and get revenue from that, problem solved. Now they can welcome all those torrent folks and even overseas people and get companies that are global to do placements, Mcdonalds, KFC, Dell, Apple, and on and on. I have thus solved the problem and everyone still get to watch want they want too, win–win!!
Then there would just be a few breaks for local area commercials, everything national or international would be built right into the show. Imagine a hero who has to eat a Whopper to get his power? Imagine the cheerleader must shower with Prell shampoo (as we watch) to keep healing. Would be a lot more fun than ads.
Do you feel that you are paying for the show by watching it Mondays at 9PM? How does that work? Do the advertisers call you to check? Are you a Nielson family? I don’t get how you’re paying for it. Heroes is free over the air. If you have an antenna, it’s free to you and everyone with an antenna. How is downloading it different from time-shifting it onto your recording device, or copying it to disc?
I’m saying I’ve never heard of a show being cancelled due to internet piracy.
Your scenario has diddly to do with the real world. If a TV series is often-downloaded, this is a reflection of general interest - it’s still attractive to sponsors. Also, just because you download a TV series doesn’t mean that you aren’t going to watch it at air or buy a DVD box set.
Even for broadcast television, commercial avoidance is common, and a certain segment is going to do all they can to watch the program commercial free. In the 70s (before every device had an IR remote) we had a physical toggle leading from the speaker to the “prime” viewing chair. When VCRs came along, we time-shifted to skip commercials - often watching the show as soon as it had finished recording, so we could skip over the ads altogether. Now, with PVR, we don’t have to wait until the program finishes, we just have to wait the length of an average commercial break to start watching, and usually it’s a one-button operation to advance through the ads. This has never deterred advertisers from sponsoring programs, because their is benefit enough in getting their ads out there for more receptive viewers.
To advertisers, “broadcast” media is much like “broadcast” agriculture; the parable of the sower and the seed is gospel for advertisers. Sure, there are stony places, a spot on a popular TV show ain’t one of 'em.
The better a show is, the more likely that the sort of person with low ad-tolerance will download it rather than watch it on air. I couldn’t imagine watching Dexter with ads. I don’t even bother to set a timer recording for these shows - it’s a better experience when downloaded. I pay for cable, and even if it wasn’t downloaded, I’d be skipping the ads anyway - there’s no moral obligation to have a crappy viewing experience. This has zero effect on a program’s ratings, in the real world.
You bet your ass,when the DVD set comes out I’ll be buying that too, because it’s worth having.
I’m curious - if I discard the advertising supplement that comes with my newspaper, do you consider that I’ve stolen the paper?
Well what do you expect? A checkbox that the producers have to fill out?
Reason for cancelling show:
piracy
actresses wouldn’t let you bang them
too smart to find an audience
If a show is cancelled because it has low ratings, ratings that would’ve otherwise been sufficiently bolstered if pirates watched it through legitimate channels, then it’s fairly accurate to say that it was cancelled due to piracy.
I’m going to assume a show has never been cancelled due to piracy then.
Obviously, because you you want it to be true and stipulate ridiculous and illogical requirements to change your view.
What could meet your requirements? A press conference that said “show X is cancelled due to piracy”? What if, say, Lost came back on TV and only had 1/10th of its audience that it previously did, but suddely became 5x more pirated than it used to, and hence got cancelled. By your standard the show wouldn’t have been cancelled due to piracy, making it a meaningless criteria.