I think that’s what young Potter did, and it’s incontrovertibly what Mama Potter did (and probably what Pa Potter did).
There are a couple of recent SF novels in which characters earn a solid 7. I’m gonna spoiler them, because just reading the titles will spoil the ending, given the thread.
[spoiler]The less-good one was Nova, in which a girl realized she was, more or less, a genetically-engineered bomb designed to blow up a space station. Way too much teenage crush angst for my taste in the middle of the book, but in the end the book has the courage of its convictions, and she blows up the space station, killing herself and protecting humanity in the process.
The better one, the most excellent one, was Leviathan Wakes, in which Detective Miller deliberately sacrifices himself in order to protect Earth from a terrifying threat.[/spoiler]
Babylon 5 had several that meet the test. Marcus was willing to lay down his life for Delenn, and almost got killed in the process. Then toss in the crew of the White Star who baited the trap for the Shadows, knowing they were bait, the Drazi ship that intercepted the missile headed for Sheridan in the Big Battle…hell, Londo. When blowing up the Shadow ships and killing Morden didn’t work, he ordered Vir to kill him to save his planet.
Skald the Rhymer:
And Harry did that. He didn’t know, at the time of his sacrifice, that it wouldn’t permanently kill him. To the best of his knowledge at the time, he was going to actually die for real and for good.
I was just specifying tht returning from the dead doesn’t get you extra Stuff points, and if you knew it was going to happen, actually costs you some. I haven’t read HBP since it came out, so I don’t remember whether Harry knew he would come back.
No, he had no clue about coming back, as far as he knew, that was going to be it. [The final duel, he was pretty sure of himself, so no points for that, though]
I think he’s just a bit above six on the scale, as it wasn’t a completely optional choice. You-know-who was pretty set on killing him (and winning much of the fight), so Harry kind of knew he was going down one way or the other, therefore not really a full seven. But he did have an option to just run away and prolong it as much as he could (I mean, no reason Harry couldn’t scarper off to Australia like the Grangers, right?), so it’s not quite a straight six.
How about Flashman?
Can fight when his back is to the wall or when his public credit depends on it; but is self-avowedly treacherous and selfish as hell - would do anything for his own survival.
Maybe a 1?
I refuse to equate him with Kaylee. She ran under fire, but she was ashamed of it and wished she could top herself. I don’t think her crewmates even blamed her for it. If it hd been possible, Mal wouldn’t have wanted her on tht raid in the first place; he’d have considered living while she died a defeat.
If Kaylee gets a 1, Flashman gets maybe 0.6. He’ more useful than Dr. Smith, but he’s not to be trusted.
Who wants to rate Mallm Reynolds, by the way? He didn’t CHOOSE to die to save Wash in hte Niska incident, and his death was aonly technical (heart briefly stops, revived by ordinary medical means), but I’d say there’s evidence from other episodes that, if the choice had been his, he would have told Zoe to take Wash away from the torture chamber rather than him.
What’s Mal’s score?
Mal gets a 5. He’s a great man…a good man…well, he’s OK.
Second Mal’s 5. IIRC there were other times he put himself in great danger for his crew.
How about Damar from DS9? Maybe starts out as a 2, but evolves into a 5 or 6 by the end?
I can’t help but think that the 5 is low. In “Out of Gas,” he shows that he’s got the stuff to die fr an ideal. He is either literally uncomprehending or vaguely offended when Simon asks him why he came back to save the Tams from the yokels, as in Mal’s view, leaving his crew behind is utterly unacceptable. And he did die under Niska’s tender ministrations. I’m willing to give him a pass based on his total history in a way that I would not give, say, Batman.
From Wikipedia’s synopsis
Seems a very solid 7; I don’t remember any indication that he thought he’d survive.
It’s judgment calls all the way down, but I figure that Tony Stark could’ve flown away in The Avengers; and that he instead went to what he thought was his death saving the city; and that he would’ve died for keeps if not for the Hulk slowing his fall; and that his heart maybe stopped anyway, which maybe technically means that he died before getting revived and convincing everyone to grab some shawarma.
I don’t think his heart stopped long enough to count as death. But yeah, he went after that missile fully expecting not to come back. He actually survives not because of the Hulk per se (in that Thor would have caught him and probably landed less violently) but because he ran out of momentum at just the right moment. If he’d had a little ore, he would have kept going too long to fall through the wormhole and would have died as he expected.
I’ll say 5.9. And, as his name is “Tony Stark” and not “Worf son of Mog,” hed prefer that to the 7.
On this scale, I think that Gaius Baltar ranks as a solid -1. Not only is he an evil bastard who will do whatever it takes for his own benefit, up to and including enabling genocide for the sake of some nookie, but he actually starts a religion urging everyone else to be just as evil bastards as he is.
And on the other end of the scale, we have the various Knights of the Cross, from the Dresden Files books. Not only are they, every last one of them, willing to trade (not just risk, actually trade) their life for a chance to save another; they’re actually willing to make that trade for the sake of their literal worst enemy. Of course, not all of them have actually died, but they’ve all shown themselves perfectly willing to do so. Of note, one of them is even willing to do so despite being completely agnostic about the existence of God and/or an afterlife.
Did Gandalf know he would come back? I think he didn’t.
Turning back to face the Balrog: 7. Breaking his staff: 8.
Do you mean 70s!Baltar or 2000s!Baltar? Because the latter is all over the place. Didn’t he try to give his seat on the evacuation ship to some random old lady? And with Head!Six screwing with him all the time, it’s had to judge.
Which is not to say dude ddn’t need an ass-whupping.
A slight variation on it: what significant antagonists qualify? I mean, sure, there are a bajillion mooks who throw themselves in front of bullets–but how many important named villains do the same?
Best I can think of off the top of my head is Darth Vader, who may well qualify for a 7.
It depends on the sort of story. Villains are unlikely to be self-sacrificing for obvious reasons. But there’s any number of them who love their wilves or mamas or kids.
Dr. Doom is a good man to have on your side in a fight. You just can’t be sure he’ll stay on your side. He’d never go as high as a 6 or 7 because nothing is as important to him as his own life and power, but I can see him getting killed because he was fighting to protect Latveria (or Valeria Richards) and his clever plan went awry.
Magneto as written by many – I’m thinking Chris Claremont – is more an extremist than a villain. He’d die to save mutantkind. He’d die to save the Earth. Thre’s times when he’d die to save a random kid.
in Robert B Parker’s SPENSER novels, mob boss Joe Broz was clearly willing to risk death to save his son’s life.If not for Spenser showing mercy to him, he’d have merited a 6.
The villain addendum is a good one.