Perhaps as an American I am somehow more sensative to hearing US bashing, but it seems that the US is on the receiving end of it (“it” being the doo-doo end of the stick, of course) over just about anything it does. If the US doesn’t act on something, it is “isolationist.” If it does act, it is acting incorrectly, or taking the wrong side, or being generally fascist.
What is the world’s problem with the US; or, what am I missing in coming to this conclusion?
Many factors are at work here:
Part of it is American arrogance.
In respect of other cultures, this is viewed as “Western arrogance”, a sort of post-imperialist hangover.
Within Western culture, American critics can point to Super 301 and the Helms-Burton Act as examples of American arrogance towards its closest allies. The other examples cited by gorewonfla are relevant too.
I have yet to encounter the “ugly American” abroad - without exception, all Americans (and that’s quite a number of them) I have met have been informed, well-educated, open-minded and often bilingual.
And yes, I also agree that there is an element of the “tall poppy syndrome” as well. People like to see the guys at the top fall down.
I have often wondered if the Greeks, Phoenicians and Egyptians used to bitch about the Romans as well. Probably. They didn’t used to communicate with people from other cultures and countries by the internet, though, so maybe they never heard the Roman jokes, or got the same level of feedback. Or maybe they just nailed their critics to crosses. Who knows.
In a lot of ways, erislover, you should be optomistic.
I’m unclear just why public opinion polls in say, France, concern us, frankly. In general, if socialist leaders in europe are upset, we’re probably on the right tack, generally speaking.
Unilateral nuclear disarmament is a good thing according to the euro-weenies, so presumably a Unilateral nuclear shield should be okay as well.
Part of it is perceived hipocracy.
The US frequently criticizes other countries about democracy, but the recent debacle of the US Presidental election is a tough one to explain. Forget partisan US politics, try for a moment to put yourself in the shoes of someone in a third world nation. It was hardly the role model for how a model democracy should work, and impossible to explain with any clarity.
We’re hardly the only country that constantly gets criticized; look at Afghanistan. But they don’t seem to sweat the international opinion very much.
Well, let’s see–we didn’t have assassinations, competing factions didn’t shoot up our cities, the incumbent administration didn’t decide it was going to stay in office longer, and the Army didn’t step in and seize power. Yeah, I can see why Third World countries wouldn’t understand the whole thing.
Re anti-Americanism: a factor which hasn’t been brought out yet is that we actually listen to the criticism. Other governments and other people can bitch about whatever, and the US media will obligingly report it…and, sure as hell, somebody will come along to tell us why foreign opinions should outweigh our own (usually this is because said foreign opinions support somebody’s domestic opinions, but even so). On the other hand, no matter how much you dislike the policies of, say, China, there’s no real point in harping on it–they aren’t gonna have any angst-ridden debates over foreigners not liking them.
<<<Forget partisan US politics, try for a moment to put yourself in the shoes of someone in a third world nation. It was hardly the role model for how a model democracy should work, and impossible to explain with any clarity.>>>
That’s ridiculous.
We dealt with the matter according to the rule of law, in our courtrooms. There were no tanks in the streets, no violent clashes, no car bombs, no looting, no wanton destruction of property. When legal options were exhausted and the verdict of the court system was finally clear, the loser didn’t head for the hills, and didn’t call for the sabatoge of the new Administration, didn’t form a shadow government, but stepped aside gracefully and encouraged the orderly transition of power.
As a democracy, it was one of our finest hours. It was a bright and shining moment for democracies everywhere. The rest of the world damn well better sit up and take notice. We showed 'em how it’s done, and we did it better than anyone else in the world would have.
Not singling out Panzerman, but perhaps quotes in the above vein is a reason why some people have a negative view of Americans. It would be fairer to say that the American election process and legal system worked in such a way to produce a smooth transition of power. Was it a shining example of ¡°all men are created equal¡±, “every vote counts”,¡°one person one vote¡±, ¡°majority rule¡± or a ¡°model democracy?¡±
Is it even necessary to point out that the electoral college system does not match one person one vote, which in my understanding is the very basic premise of democracy. On top of that, this is the second time in 40 years that the electoral college system has produced a President that may not have receive the popular vote from US citizens. In the aftermath of the election, I haven¡¯t seen any great initiatives to fine tune, improve or make the US system a better democracy.
Certainly don¡¯t want to put words in any one¡¯s mouth, but are you trying to tell the rest of the world that they should set up a ¡°democratic¡± system just like that in the US complete with an electoral college since it is the “best in the world”?
The first and second definitions of democracy in Webster’s dictionary are: 1 : “a government by the people; esp : rule of the majority 2 : a government in which the supreme power is held by the people.” (I don¡¯t have a Webster¡¯s dictionary and this is googling someone else¡¯s quote, so feel free to provide another commonly accepted definition.)
There are a multitude of active threads still debating or ranting about all sides of the presidential election. This is not at all intended to hijack or join those threads. I am just trying to explain to the OP the opinion of many Chinese citizens that I tried to explain the whole thing to. The point is simple:
Citizens of a foreign country looking in on the US Presidential election process just might have a hard time understanding that this is democracy in action since the winner didn¡¯t actually win the majority vote.
It’s jealousy. Pure and simple.
Not just jealousy… CHEESE jealousy. They want our cheese. California, Wisconsin… the best cheese on Earth.
Well, at least, that’s why Canada hates us, anyway.
Well…apart the supposed jealousy, being the only superpower has others consequences. I mean : who cares if Liechenstein has signed or not such or such convention? Who actually knows it? And what influence can have the Liechenstein policy in other countries?
A lot of american decisions have direct consequences in other countries, and for that reasons will raise discontentment. And these decisions will be widely reported and commented…and obviously criticized.
Also…plainly because it’s a board mainly frequented by americans arguing about american policies. If it was a german board mainly debatting about german policies with a minority of non-german visitors, you would read a lot of german-bashing.
Comments like :
and :
Are also good explanations for american-bashing…
HA! I invite you to try a good King Island brie. Or Timboon Farmhouse feta. You’ll be wanting to invade Australia[sup]1[/sup] to get your hands on our cheese.
[sup]1[/sup]Or at least invade Timboon and King Island. You could probably leave the rest of us alone.
I got a new book called “Rogue State” by William Blum out of the library last week. It was on the “just back” shelves which is one of my favourite haunts. The book is divided into three parts: Ours and Theirs: Washington’s Love/Hate Relationship with Terrorists and Human Rights Violators; United States Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction; A Rogue State Versus the World. Some of the chapters under the last section are headed:
Perverting Elections
Eavesdropping on the Planet
Kidnapping and Looting
How the CIA sent Nelson Mandela to Prison for 28 years
The CIA and Drugs: Just Say “Why Not?”
Being the World’s Only Superpower Means Never Having to Say You’re Sorry
The US invades, Bombs and Kills for It…but do Americans really believe in free enterprise?
I haven’t started the book yet. I might just skim through it. To counterbalance all that I’d like to say two things:
I also get left-wing English magazine The Newstatesman out of the library when it’s available. It has amazing essays about science and culture and that’s really why I read it. They have a columnist who calls President Bush “Boy George” and nothing else. He started doing it right after he won the election. However, the magazine once ran a story in which an eminent political commentator wrote about America’s power being responsible for keeping the world stable. The only reason there hasn’t been a world war or something worse in the last 50 years in his opinion was because of America’s ability to maintain the status quo as much as possible. That’s strong praise coming from a left-winger.
Sometimes I snidely consider that a lot of 40 somethings like to drag the old American Imperialist stuff out because it makes them feel young. They remember when they demonstrated about Vietnam etc.
I sort of go along with that line P J O’Rourke has about how the American way is considerably better than a lot of ways. He has a speech about it. Although I haven’t started the book yet…
This, from the land that invented Velveeta and Kraft singles? Puh-leese. Gimme a good Oka over american cheese anyday.
As for why we bash the US, that’s simple : you make it so easy! Presidents who can’t read, elections where a woman who campaigned for one side determines the rules, and your oh-so-elegant “cultural industry” that you love to sell to us at discount rates.
We got more than Velveeta and Kraft, man. Besides, Kraft is just a side-business that one of our beer companies’ runs.
We just got a new block of cheddar the other day, and my-oh-my, I’m addicted to this stuff…
I’m telling you: It’s not politics, it’s not presidents, it’s not electoral systems… it’s the cheese.
You obviously didn’t see the Libyan ambassador’s speech in the UN. Field day for third world countries opposed to the US. “How can they say we should adopt democracy when *they *can’t even get it to work properly?” I guess it didn’t help that the son of a former president was elected. Sort of looks like a banana republic arrangement.
Actually, countries in Asia are very sensitive to foreign criticism. I think its a loss of face issue.
Criticism of the US by its peers is something the US should listen to, and vice versa. Westerners are all in the same civilisational boat. We measure, or should measure our standards against each other.
The US is, figuratively and literally, not an island. The American people can’t afford to tell other countries how to run their affairs, and then put their hands over their ears and say “la la la”. And, thankfully, the people in charge (generally) don’t.
I’m always a bit intrigued by the US public’s attitude towards foreign affairs and foreign opinion. It must be a relic of ultra-isoltaionism, the “Europe’s wars are not our wars” mentality.
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*Originally posted by SPOOFE *
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My understanding is that the US only have pasteurized cheese. Go on…how do you expect them to be taken seriously?
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I don’t see how not being able to pronounce things properly in a foreign language makes one an ugly American. I suppose in France where they’re a might touchy about their language it might be a factor. But if anyone is that touchy about an obvious foreigner have trouble with their langauge then they’re the ugly ones not the American. I spent a few years in Germany and I admit I never got the hang of the language. About the best I could do was order stuff in restaurants and get by while shopping. This didn’t seem to bother most Germans.
And as for Americans not liking the food. About the only serious complaints I’ve ever heard came from Americans who were overseas for an extended period of time. My sister is stationed in Italy and when I talk to her she says she misses Mexican food and BBQ.
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I’m pretty sure we’ve offered to let England and a few other countries in on this. But I’ll admit I might be wrong.
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Are they incapable of signing it without the US?
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I am aware of no treaty that would outright ban greenhouse gasses. At any rate they could still sign that treaty without the United States.
You have a point but I never understood that attitude. I never hated Green Bay for winning the Super Bowl.
Marc