Hey Ike! What's the deal with Dortmunder?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Tried to send you an e-mail, but you don’t have one listed on your profile. So secretive!

I was at the library the other day, and recalled several folk here had written favorably about Westlake’s Dortmunder books. So I took out about 6-7 of his boks, 4-5 of which were Dortmunders. The earliest one is Jimmy the Kid, which I guess is the 3d Dortmunder book. So I started there. I’m about half way through, and, IMHO, it just isn’t that good. Certainly not the kind of book I just can’t put down. Back at the office, I see you have been a vocal fan of Dortmunder. A regular Westlake evangelist.

Please reassure me that this was the one mediocre book Westlake wrote. Should I plow through the rest of this book, shelve it and go on to the later Dortmunders, figure Dortmunder just isn’t my cup of tea and try the other Westlakes, or give up on Westlake altogether?

Some of my favorite books/authors are in the comic/mystery vein. Examples:
Thomas Perry - Island, Butcher’s Boy, Bigfish, Metzger’s Dog (but not the Jane Whitfield crap)
Ross Thomas - Chinaman’s Chance, 4th Durango
Keith Snyder - Coffin’s Got the Dead Guy Inside
Most of Hiassen
And you know how I feel about the master, Harry Crews.

So what’s the poop? I was looking forward to enjoying something along these same lines. Am I missing something? Or is it that Westlake only appeals to those finetuned East Coast sensibilities?

2

Oooops, I already answered you over in your “SF For Kids” thread in IMHO. Here, I’ll copy out my response…

Get your hands on THE HOT ROCK, the first book in the series. It’s classic. BANK SHOT (1972) has a marvelous premise, but IMHO it’s not Westlake’s best writing.

The other 1970s/80s titles (JIMMY THE KID, NOBODY’S PERFECT, WHY ME?, and GOOD BEHAVIOR) are not the best of the group…but I think things pick up in 1990 with DROWNED
HOPES, and continue strong with DON’T ASK (1993) and WHAT’S THE WORST THAT COULD HAPPEN? (1996).

The new Dortmunder novel, the tenth in the series, BAD NEWS, is supposed to be in bookstores by April.

PS: JIMMY THE KID is probably a lousy place to start, as it’s based on a big in-joke…Westlake also wrote under the pseudonym Richard Stark, so by incorporating chapters of a STRAIGHT crime novel by Stark into a COMIC crime novel by Westlake, he was…well, remember how much dope everybody was smoking back in the 1970s and be gentle on the guy, okay? Also, the whole “kidnapped kid is smarter than his abductors” schtick is pretty dated.

If you like BIG comic crime novels, DROWNED HOPES might be the one to try. My hardcover copy comes in at 426 pages.

3

Thanks for setting me straight, bro.

JTK just struck me as really derivative and uninspired. What was the short story we all had to read in grade school, Red Chief or something or another where the kidnapped kid makes life hell for the hapless kidnappers? Man, long term memory is completely gone. Maybe by Twain?

I forget what all the other titles are, but I’m pretty sure I got Drowned Hopes and What’s the Worst that Could Happen.

Thanks for the straight dope. Some kind of a save was definitely in order to prevent an even further erosion of your rep in these parts midwestern!

And you had to read the post 17 times for that response? Or is it just that the board is full of Ukelele Ike wanna-bes?

Ike, I want to be like Ike. Sounds like a good slogan…

Have you read Madison Smartt Bell?
How bout the Perry and Thomas I listed above?
Feel free to respond via e-mail if you wish.

4

“The Ransom of Red Chief,” by O. Henry. Didn’t Bret Harte do a similar story? There’s nothing new under the sun.

You ARE like Ike, as far as I can tell: forty years old, married with two kids, living in a big city. That’s why I always open up your threads, hoping to see you fall into some ghastly new pitfall (like reading the wrong Dortmunder novel first), so that I may myself avoid it.

I’m a HUGE Ross Thomas fan, but not so hot on Perry. Nope, have not read, or heard of, M.S. Bell. What sort of stuff does he write? At the moment, I’m reading Georges Rodenbach’s Bruges-la-Morte (a Belgian Symbolist novel, and the poems of Fernando Pessoa.

And I believe those 17 views were by people checking to see whether you were hitting on me. Folks around here have a powerful interest in my sex life.

5

Bell writes BIG BOOKS, with a lot of plot and in depth character development. The main characters all have some little twist or kink that gets my interest, and the references strike a chord with me. And, of course, they are very well written. The kind of book you get 200 pages into and are glad you still have 2-300 more to go. And you don’t know where it is going to go or how it is going to end. Maybe his books could be described as bigger than, and not as outlandish as Crews’. Or similar to some McCarthy (“Suttree” perhaps) but not so overwritten (IMO).

My 2 faves of his are “Save Me Joe Louis”, and “Soldier’s Joy.” While I read just about all of his books, I must say the other 6-7 or so don’t live up to those 2. He got a bit of press a couple of years ago for “All Soul’s Rising” about the slave rebellion in Haiti. I read it, and am glad I did, but I would not recommend it as strongly as the two above. SMJL is on my short list of best books ever.

What a save with that Red Chief, huh? There’s synapses firing in the old dog’s brain yet!

O Henry, Twain. What’s the diff? Come to think of it, tho, what was the deal with teaching O Henry to public school kids in the 60s and 70s. Gift of the Magi? Must have been a couple more. Are they still part of the required curriculum?

(Oh yeah. You forgot, darned good looking!)

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So, the theory is that thru now 82 folk are interested in the sex lives of a couple of 40 year old married dads? Right. How would that run?

Friday - hopes dashed when I realized I forgot to get refill on Viagra.
Sat - rented some porn, but decided instead to eat some ice cream and go to bed early.
Sun - woke up with morning wood, but apparently only had to piss. Considered sex in the afternoon, but took a nap instead.
Monday - efforts at sex ended after argument over who had to be on top (both were too lazy to do any work). Partener apparently wasn’t turned on by offer to “just lie there.”
Tuesday - realized I had thrown out Victoria’s Secret catalog unread as junk mail.

Must say Drowned Hopes is starting out much better than JTK. Tho the latter was almost saved by the very last line. I also have Don’t Ask and WTWTCH which I will probably read, and Nobody’s Perfectwhich I will probably forego.

You ever realize how you read/view something differently if it is highly recommended by someone you respect? Maybe you are a little more critical, instead of just devoouring and enjoying it as you would if you had accidently diiscovered it yourself.

And thanks for the unexpected concession from a New Yorker that our humble burg qualifies as “a big city.”

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Hey, can I join this confab. While I’m still a few (precious few) years back from 40, and do not live in the big city, I am married with two children and read the Dortmunder novels.

So, am I in?

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As long as you brought beer, a comfy chair, and your reading glasses. And maybe a nice afghan should you feel a chill.

9

Wait…are you the Chicago Dinsdale or the Kankakee Dinsdale?

Didja notice yet that “Tom Jimson” is “Jim Thompson” spelled sideways, kinda? I didn’t catch onto that until I’d nearly finished DROWNED HOPES, which made me feel somewhat dense.

The first chapter of NOBODY’S PERFECT is very good, as I remember. Dortmunder is in the custody of the law, and meets his court-appointed attorney: “…he was young, possibly fourteen.”

I checked out Bell on Amazon yesterday. The book about the Haiti slave uprising sounded pretty intriguing (I’d love to know more about that), but I’ll take your advice and try one of the other ones first.

Frankd6: Hop on, and pull up an afghan. What’s YOUR favorite Dortmunder?

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My favorite is Dortmunder Union :wink:

But seriously, I loved WTWTCH and ,unlike Ike, also enjoyed Good Behavior

BTW, I’m married and have an old Mexican blanket instead of an afghan, can I still be in the club?

11

All Soul’s Rising is really well written. It is also very long and a little dense. Definitely not a quick, easy read. Knowing so little about the actual events and characters, I was a little frustrated at being unable to distinguish what was historical and what was fiction. Does a good job of having alternate sections of the book told from various points of view. Lots of atrocities committed by both sides. Dead babies. Heads on spikes as standards. That kind of fun stuff. Maybe a little Blood Meridian in there. I’m sure you would find it a worthwhile read. And since it got a bit of press, it should be very readily available. But I would be very surprised if you did not enjoy Save Me Joe Louis.

I assume you mean JT the writer, not our beloved governor.

So, Ike. Do you prefer the “straight” crime/mystery genre, or the comic versions? You say you like Ross Thomas, but I am particularly fond only of a few of his comic efforts. His (and many other) straight crime novels can be enjoyable reads, but little more for me. Basically the kind of stuff where I feel as though I am just devouring pages of print almoost instinctively/unthinkingly, with little lasting effect to show for the effort. As for Thomas Perry, I thought Butcher’s Boy was an excellently done straight crime novel. But I am disappointed that he has lately focussed on the Jane Whitfield stories. You don’t find his comic efforts, like Island, Metzger’s Dog, humorous? Interesting. I would have expected them to appeal to a fan of a book like the one I am currently reading.

Hey, here’s another one. How about Richard Russo, who wrote Nobody’s Fool, The Dead Pool, Mohawk, and a couple more I can’t remember off the top of my head. Now tere’s a writer I wish were more prolific.

What do you guys think about my observation on how the way you read a book changes depending on how it comes to your attention? For example, if I tell you XYZ is the best book I’ve ever read, when you read it, on some level you feel you are also learning something about me. Instead of just judging the book on its individual merit, you are comparing it to the best you have read lately, and wondering what else I have read such that this is the best. Sets up an interesting conundrum as to how strongly you should praise a book, yet, merely mentioning it may not convince the other person to read it. Damn, I have too much work to do today to be babbling like this.

Did one of you guys brings some snacks? I’m feeling a mite peckish. Hey Chief. Pass me one of those Dortmunders.

12

Dinsdale’s Dortmunder update.

Good call on Drowned Hopes, Ike. Heck of an entertaning read. I followed it up with Don’t Ask, and am now partway into What’s the Worst that Could Happen. In between the last two I took a break from Westlake with King’s Hearts in Atlantis. Read it at the strong recommendation of a friend. I had tired of King a long time ago, and probably would never have read another of his books. IMO HiA was surprisingly entertaining and well written - well worth reading.

Glad I stuck with Westlake. These later books bear little resemblance to the first I read.

I’m trying to find an attribution for a quote in DA, which I am considering using as a sig. “In order to keep your faith intact, be sure it’s kept unsullied by fact.” Any ideas?

13

Hey, if you ever come across a copy of the Dortmunder short story “Too Many Crooks,” jump on that puppy. It’s one of the funniest short stories I’ve ever read, and I’ve read a few.

It won Westlake a Best Short Story Edgar Award in 1990, and it’s included in the recent big Houghton Mifflin anthology BEST AMERICAN MYSTERY STORIES OF THE CENTURY.

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On a somewhat related note, I’ll give a hearty recommendation for Westlake’s novel Kahawa. It’s set in 1970’s East Africa with a group of mercenaries stealing a trainload of coffee (kahawa is Swahili for coffee) from Idi Amin.