So I started seeing this girl the other months, we have a few dates and hit it off so we decide to continue to meet. But just so it happens we have the same last name, which is a fairly common occurrence in Korea since people with the top 3 or 4 last names combined make up over the half the population. But within the last names, you have a region and a clan. For example I could be a Lee of KyungJu of the Ikje Clan or something similar.
Prior to 2005 it was illegal for people of the same clan to marry, even though it’s completely patrilineal (so you could be 1st cousins on your mother’s side and marry without breaking the law) and in some of the more prolific clans have thousands and thousands of members probably. Even before being abolished it was an antiquated law and my WAG is it probably didn’t turn up too often, and when it did, ignored.
But anyway, if it isn’t obvious by now, my current SO and I are of the same clan, same region, same last name. What would traditionally be considered incest here. I find it amusing more than anything but when we first found out we were both kind of… Uncomfortable? But we got over it pretty quick, I think.
Interesting. You mention being “uncomfortable”. Is it still somewhat taboo despite now being legal? Are you going to have people from your grandparents generation “tut-tutting” at your wedding? How long ago was it that the law was actually enforced?
(was interested in the topic, since I’d never heard of it before. Googling, the largest Kim clan apparently has four million people! Imagine that would be pretty limiting if you were looking for a prospective spouse.)
Somewhat, but I think most people in their 20s and 30s would probably react similarly as we did. Initially feeling kind of “hrm…” then just laugh it off. If it gets serious then you might want to start worrying about your families’ reaction. It does feel a bit icky if I think about it.
Bit early to be thinking about marriage but hypothetically speaking, very probably. I did a quick search and most results are about the 2005 law being abolished and one unfortunate lady whose parents refuse to meet her fiance because of the issue. Her parents are probably on the conservative side though.
Among the negative stigmas of this rather broad definition of incest is that it’s something that the “low-born” (peasants) do. Funny thing is though almost every family in modern Korea claims noble lineage (many “peasants” forged fake lineage books to prove noble ancestry), so class is a complete non-issue in today’s society. Could be the reason there are so many Kims and Lees. No cite, yet another WAG.
Another is that it’ll lead to birth defects, which probably has some basis in reality, but when a clan has millions of members, being from the same clan doesn’t mean much genetically.
No clue. I just looked up the marriage registration form and there is a section where you list your clan, but you could just lie and they’re not going to check.
I thought this was going to be more like my great-aunt’s situation, who married her step-nephew (my grandma’s second husband’s son from a previous marriage). They’re the same age, and not blood-related, but it makes for an awkward-looking hiccup in the family tree.
I sort of remember a scene from Arrested Development. There was a movie about cousins being in love, and there were people picketing the theatre. They had signs about incest being a sin or something like that. And I think that George Michael had a sign that said “It’s a grey area at best.”
I’m curious, too. Can you trace your lineage to any common relatives that you know of? Here in the US it’s pretty much taboo to marry a brother/sister; aunt/uncle; parent/child; or first cousin. Anything beyond first cousin is fair game.
My brother has gone on a few dates with my 1st cousin. They’re not related (brother is a half-brother with the same mom; my cousin is on my father’s side), but it’s still fun to explain to folks.
Probably a few hundred years ago. It goes likes this, from largest to smallest:
Last name>Region>Clan.
So of the KyungJu (or Gyeong-Ju) Lees, there are a number of clans within. If you’re asking if our families are from the same town or something, then no, our families are from different provinces. I bet there are more cases of this sort of “incest” in a rural small town if anybody actually cared to keep track.
We find out because I asked, out of curiosity. I thought the odds were slim, but apparently not that slim.
Closer to incest only in name. But of course we definitely have a common ancestor (the clan founder, at least), but all of humanity has a common ancestor too. We’re all cousins in some ways.
I might be able to track down the extent of our relatedness if I wanted but my great uncle keeps track of the lineage books and I’m not gonna go to him be say “hey i’m seeing this chick and i just wanna make sure she ain’t my cousin hur hur hur.”
Interesting. I was aware the of law being changed, because there are Koreans here in Japan who would get married, and the question before 2005 was they were valid marriages back in Korea. The news reports didn’t talk about clans, and just said people with the same last name, so this explanation makes more sense.
My first love (not counting the girl who kissed me in kindergarten) was a fourth cousin, but her family came from a different wife of my polygamous great-great grandfather. Since our great-great grandmothers were different, we only shared 1/32 of our genes (if my math is right).
