That must bite.
Understood…but the military is all about discipline, and discipline is needed to keep everything tip-top. I agree wholeheartedly with the OP.
FWIW, none of the guys or girls I saw at MCO (Orlando International) during the first year or two of the war (when I was working there) were sloppily dressed- including National Guard and Reservists.
That said, they were all going out, and for the first time, and maybe they didn’t give quite as large a shit after a year or two of being shot at.
I don’t understand why they’re supposed to be in uniform if they’re booked on civilian flights, though.
Why don’t you go up to these dirtbags and give them a piece of your mind? Make sure to inform them you are AF though, they can be sure to give you the respect you deserve.
I like the purple mumu comment.
- They probably don’t have a choice
- That’s retarded but I’ve never actually seen that done.
- I don’t understand how this happens. My patches went on once and haven’t moved since. They’re straight, I assure you. What’s wrong with these guys? But I’m talking about velcro for the cargo pockets and chest pockets. Those fall off all the time, which can be mistaken for an unbuttoned pocket.
- I’m saying they don’t look like shit when empty straps are dangling off. It looks normal. It’s not common sense at all, it’s your sense, and you’re wrong.
Cubsfan: So when was the last time you went up to one of these people and talked to him about his appearance? Yes, it IS your responsibility, particularly if you are an NCO or an officer. I did exactly that when I was in the military, because it’s a function of leadership to make sure the military is being properly represented in public. I also confronted uniformed personnel in bars who were misbehaving. Now, you may get a hearty “Fuck you!” from the guy, but at least you’ve done your duty.
I don’t think that the OP’s point is that soldiers are slobs. At least it’s not my point. My point is that it is damn near impossible for a kid in the current camo all-purpose uniform to look Strac unless he is draped with all the stuff that goes with the full field kit plus a big ugly hunting knife hanging off his waist belt. It just cant be done. The kid is walking around in a pixilated sack. He just can not look “military” in that thing.
Back in the days (not so long ago) that a private was pulling down $98 per month Uncle Sam provided him with a set of greens, two sets of tans and three sets of fatigues plus a pair of low quarter shoes and two pairs of boots and maybe five of six sets of underwear and socks. New officer s were handed $250 to go buy the same stuff plus a set of blues. Patches, name tapes, insignia of grade could all be purchased for less than five bucks and a sewing kit from the PX was less than a dollar. The quartermaster would wash, and if needed starch, 25 pieces a week for a private. It just didn’t cost all that much to keep up a uniform and look respectable.
I’m not talking about un-bloused trousers, flying boot string ends, open pockets and dangling patches. I’m talking about a general purpose uniform that invites, nay, forces, a soldier to look like the rear rank guy in a route step outfit.
And to hell with blousing garters – they were designed to cut off circulation. 40 years after I last wore the damned things I still have groves on my shins. The current BDU and ACU trousers have tapes at the cuff designed to tie the pant leg so they can be neatly stuffed into boot tops. If that doesn’t work there is always plenty of 60 mph tape around to secure the pant legs. Blousing garters are an Air Force thing and unbecoming of a soldier.
Why on earth can’t the most powerful, the richest, the most extravagant nation in the world provide its soldiers with a decent looking walking around uniform?
Don’t get me started on the silly-ass beret. That alone is proof that uniform design has been taken over by a consortium of interior decorators. And French interior decorators at that.
Bring back the service cap, the garrison cap and the campaign hat, I say. Bring back the glint of brass and the shine of smooth polished leather and the crisp look of wool serge, gabardine and starched cotton.
See this is just a further example of how I just 100% do not comprehend the military mentality. Not one bit. I seriously cannot grasp how this stuff could possibly matter to anyone, let alone make someone angry. Traveling sucks. Do what you need to do to be comfortable without, you know, dangling your wiener out in public or something. You sure as shit won’t catch me telling someone who has just spent a year in Iraq risking his life for Bush’s pet project that he needs to get his panties crisply wadded and assume Maximum Discomfort for my viewing pleasure.
Aren’t there far more important things to worry about than this??
Generally, I agree with the OP. This was one of the things they first taught us in basic. When you wear the uniform, you are an AMBASSADOR of the United States, regardless of what service you are in. You are representing your country. You WILL look your best. Pockets buttoned, laces tucked, straps tucked, boots shined, beret shaved, all that. Any less would earn you more push ups. Or worse. You will be in the public eye. These people are looking at you. They expect more of you then they expect from others. Even themselves.
Whether it was deployment or just a return from an FTX, the job of the quartermaster was to make sure they had a few days for soldiers to return to recovery and turn in at least one set of BDUs for cleaning and pressing. These would be issued before passes or boarding the freedom bird. Most of us didn’t care that we were putting clean uniforms on dirty bodies, because we knew we had to look sharp. Sometimes a whorebath can do wonders.
I made the mistake once of granting a soldier to wear a uniform that he told me did not have name tapes sewn on. When we were in the field and he put it on, my NCO gave him a world of shit (the soldier didn’t tell me there were no unit patches or even designation sewn on it) – the NCO said the uniform was ‘sterile’ and made him wear his nastiest set for the whole day. I had to pull the NCO aside afterwards and told him I gave him permission to do so, and then HE gave ME a world of shit. So I put on my last nastiest set and we stunk together for the whole day. To make it even, I finally broke a personal communication barrier that my NCO and I had had with this soldier and we eventually became friends (to such a degree that an LT and a PFC can be). We went out and had a few beers once in a while after that. He started calling me ‘Sir, Dude’, to not a small amount of upset to the NCO whenever he said that. But at least the NCO did it knowing that I helped him get a better soldier for our team, and usually with no outstanding admonishments.
Unless you were a one-tour boor, and only in it for the college money, most of this stuff was ingrained into you on a daily basis by the NCOs. To this day, 10 years after leaving the army, I still have the same habits – Equipment check (wallet, keys, umbrella, etc.), recon routes before SP (i.e. find the right bus route and take it the day before so you know where you are going), same thing in same place in the ruck (so your buddy knows where your medkit is if (I) get hurt; I ALWAYS keep my extra pack of smokes in the same pocket), back ups, disseminate info to subordinates in case of … and all that. I know it sounds kinda OCD, but it works for me. A friend of mine and I have a saying: “You can take the soldier out of the field, but you can’t take the army out of the soldier.”
OH: And to add: As a fellow (former) officer, I am also used to and offended by senior officers who don’t know how to wear the uniform. I came up through the ranks before I got my commission. Most of these guys were either frat boys or ‘got their bars out of a cracker jack box’ type of officers. Once, when I was a PFC, my LTC had to ask me to clean his 9mm after his (barely) qualification because the armourer wouldn’t accept his filthy weapon for the third time after he was sure it was clean.
LESSON LEARNED: Once, I had to take an Article 15 for stealing army property. My SSG wardmaster at the hospital gave me permission to put an army computer in my barracks room so I could do work without going to the hospital. He even signed for it. During a Health and Welfare inspection (army speak for ‘shakedown’), the 1SG saw it with army property tags on it and I was busted. The SSG never admitted that he had given me permission to do so. I spent two weeks on extra duty and learned an exception to the rule:
They teach you: You have to respect the rank, if not the man. Always salute or go to Parade Rest.
I learned: You respect the man who earns the rank, regardless of what it is. Private to COL.
Okay, enough of me. I know this is long. I just got typing and went off on a rant. Next time, ask me why I’m bitter about the army. (And why I don’t capitalize it)
PS: Add Class A’s into the action, and it is more trouble than it is worth. Would you really want these soldiers to make sure they’re not 1/8th of an inch off form their jump wings than letting them board a plane? They’ve done their job – let ‘em wear BDUs. Just do it right, according to AR 670-1 (IIFC)
Well, there is a reason, and a damn good one too. See, a soldier spends his time between fights getting ready for the next fight. When it’s showtime you are out of time. That’s when you live or die by your training and the condition of your gear. And that’s no time to regret being a slob.
Keep in mind that most of these guys are only a few years away from being babied by their doting mothers. So the business with the spit & polish is a way to hammer that into every soldier’s subconscious. You never leave anything half-ass, because that will be the thing that isn’t ready when it really needs to be. Details matter.
The military is the only organization designed to keep working while people are blowing holes in it. I understand all that. But geez, there needs to be some slack in there somewhere.
So I say issue 'em all tie-died travel togas.
Um, and maybe some skivvies too.
Navy and Marine Corps do not allow camouflage off-post (with exception of deploying units, obviously) or ashore. If they want to/have to wear a uniform while they travel, it is whatever the Marine version of Class A is and for Navy it is Service White/Blue depending on the season, or the snappy Donald Duck/Cracker Jack suit. Army’s ACUs are sensible maybe with battle rattle and the whole nine, but walking around downtown Wichitas, KS the cammie jammies look like shit IMO.
I have a very hard time believing that a soldier having his pants on the outside of his boots while traveling in an airport is really damaging his ability to live or fight in the next battle. I think he’s just trying to be comfortable while traveling, which is a pain in the ass even in normal clothes.
Having his pants on the outside of his boots isn’t a big deal in itself, but (from the Army’s POV) a guy who forgets to tuck in his pants is the sort of guy who might forget his extra ammunition.
Being in the military isn’t like being an insurance adjuster or something; if you forget to account for something in business, you might get yelled at by your client; if you forget to account for something in the miltary, you might get a lot of people killed.
It all falls under the heading of “good order and discipline”. The military is not a democracy, nor is it a “normal” occupation. While a pair of unbloused trousers isn’t going to cause death and dismemberment, there are no allowances for that sort of optional behavior in military regs. You’re expected to remain sharp in ALL situations. Comfort is irrelevant when in uniform. When you’re in uniform, you represent your entire service, and slovenly appearance or disregard for uniform regs indicates a soldier/sailor/airman/marine who is probably a marginal performer.
It’s because they wear those camouflage jammies these days. Seriously, I don’t think it encourages people to take pride in their appearance when you aren’t even supposed to tuck your shirt in. It’s a damned shame, IMHO.
You are truly have no idea what it means to be in the military and are completely out of touch as evidenced by your last two posts. I guess it’s already been pointed out several times though so I won’t harp on it again.
Bottom line:
If you uniform CAN be tight/sharp it SHOULD be tight/sharp. No exceptions. That’s why it’s called a “uniform” because (as the definition states) it’s “always the same; showing a single form or character in all occurrences”. A slob who can’t be bothered to blouse his damn pants is not in uniform and it’s unacceptable.
Nope. I can’t think of a reason off of the top of my head fpor any soldier to have their pants outsiode of their boots in public, even an officer. Not in public. Having travelled long distances in uniform I can tell you its not that uncomfortable. **Cubsfan **is right about that.
It might seem trivial to you but its not.
Is there anyone who isn’t connected to the military who is liable to conclude that a soldier as described in the OP looks “like shit”?
We understand that there is a reason the military trains its personnel to be fastidious about their uniforms–because much of the time, that’s all there is to be fastidious about. But is the untrained civilian eye going to notice these kinds of discrepancies to the point where one not only gets a negative impression of the servicemember but the branch he/she represents?
Just a point of fact: you know that military boots have quick-release fastenings? Well, if you have your trousers loose - i.e. on the outside - the fastenings make mincemeat of the trouser bottoms.
Our local Army recruiter has a staff of eight. They all wear digi-cammies. The shop top is a Staff Sergeant who’s almost twice as unsat as the rest. How they pull in the meat is a mystery.
I don’t know who it was said he didn’t ever press his camo. You never had field inspection? We reserved a pressed set of BDU at all times. Slacker.
It’s the taxpayers’ money. If you wear it in public, they oughtta see you care about it.