You’re assuming it’s because he forgot, though. I don’t think you can automatically make that assumption. I sometimes go without a bra, and it isn’t because I “forgot” to wear one, it’s because I decided that I wanted to be more comfortable.
As I said, I don’t understand why those things are so important, or why not looking like you crackle when you walk is considered having a “slovenly” appearance. It’s part of why I don’t “get” the military. (If it helps, as an example, in the same way, I totally do not “get” why some people are so impressed and put so much importance on things like brand name labels on clothing and stuff like that. I understand intellectually that these things are important to those people, but for the life of me I cannot relate to it on any functional level.)
Yes, I are truly have no idea. No shit, eh? As I said in my first post: "See this is just a further example of how I just 100% do not comprehend the military mentality. Not one bit. "
Military thinking/lifestyle/philosophy is just a total disconnect for me. I just don’t get it. I disagree with just about every aspect of it that I’ve ever been told about or seen, and I don’t think I could live in that environment at all. It goes totally against how my brain works. (And yes, I do understand and sadly acknowledge that there is a need for a military force. I don’t have to like it, though.)
ACUs are wash and wear, I’ve said it before. Even back when the army wore BDUs we were told not to starch them, but everyone did anyway. ACUs however, I don’t think it would do anything for them. My ACUs are never wrinkly unless I’ve been working and sweating in them for hours and hours. Even if these guys are are coming back from the ME all of them should know at least to blouse their boots when they get off of the plane.
Opalcat, you don’t have to understand the military, really. But its not that hard to not look like POS. Too many people think its some kind of completely brainwashed atmosphere and its not. I got up today, put my patches and nametags on a fresh wash and wear set of ACUs, wennt to work, ate lunch and came home EARLY since our 1st Sergeant said we’d all been busting our humps all week so she saw fit to give the troops an early start to the weekend. (I’m new to the unit here, and I also met a friend I haven’t seen in 10 years thats in the same unit, so it was a good day) Seriously, I’d have to see the characters the OP spoke of, because it takes effort to look that bad. Maybe he’s being a bit anal, I don’t know. But he has a point. If you’re in public you have to look professional. You wouldn’t have a good opinion of a slovenly cop in uniform would you? Or if you ran into almost anyone that didn’t seem to give a rats ass about their appearance. When I was a recruiter we had to wear class B’s all of the time. So I made sure all of my pants and shirts were pressed and clean, my ribbons in good shape and my shoes and belt buckle shiney. It might seem over the top to most civilians, but they couldn’t deny one thing…I looked fuckin’ good.
I’m sure it isn’t. Or at least I’m willing to accept it may not be.
My first reaction on reading the OP was pretty similar to OpalCat’s. In fact the word that immediately sprang to mind was martinet.
But I reconsidered, because frankly I’ve never been in the military and one man’s obstinancy is another’s necessity. I understand the discipline argument and though I’m not 100% convinced of the importance of taking it to that extreme ( for example is the banning of beards in the service really that important for good discipline? ), I recognize I’m not fully informed and could be wrong.
It DID reinforce my own aversion to ever joining the military ( no longer an issue at my age ). I just couldn’t take that level of personal discipline without getting very, very bitter about it - it’s just not part of my mental makeup. For me it would be a little like converting to orthodox Judaism. Aside from the not believing in G_d thing, all those little rules would drive me absolutely batshit insane ( again, I qualify that is referring only to my own hangups, not any intrinsic flaw in the religion itself - obviously it works for many ).
But now I am curious. Meaning absolutely no offence at all Cubsfan, I’d like to ask if you believe a U.S. military officer ever could be classed as a martinet at all and if so what would be an example of an overreaction bad enough to merit that label?
Heck, I already do that, sort of. I generally travel in sweats and a T-shirt and dress the sprog the same way. I don’t have to care what I look like, and I’d rather be comfortable.
In boot camp you are taught from day one that being different is not acceptable. You are taught that you follow orders and obey regulations. To do otherwise creates a breakdown in order and discipline. It doesn’t make a fucking bit of difference if you’re fighting a war or not, discipline is paramount. Without it, you don’t win wars. Hell, you don’t even win battles. You practice discipline by doing what you’ve been taught regardless of the situation you find yourself in. Wartime…peacetime…it doesn’t fucking matter. You agreeing with somebody’s half-assed opinion just makes you as half-assed as they are when it comes to understanding what makes a military unit function effectively.
Can someone explain all the military abbreviations and acronyms here, and what the different types of uniforms are, at least as they have been mentioned in this thread?
Well yeah, but there’s POS and there is “casual” and they aren’t the same. I would be a little taken aback if they were wearing torn or dirty uniforms, yeah, but something untucked? I think that most civilians wouldn’t even realize they were supposed to be otherwise most of the time, or care, and it’s that level of demand for uniformity that I just don’t “get” in the military.
Well, no. But I do have a certain distain for spanking clean pick-ups, and roofers with any un-stained clothing, and laboratory staff in heels and panty-hose … anything, in fact, that looks more like an advertisement than the real thing.
“Professional”, to me, means you look like you do your job.
Don’t curse in uniform, don’t spread your knees to take up three seats, and offer your seat to your elders, and I view those loosened laces and unbuttoned flaps as evidence that you are damned tired from doing your job.
I do recognize that the OP might have some point, but I can assure that scruffy soldiers in airports do NOT make a bad impression. People assume they are coming home, and are just glad to see they made it.
chefguy, if this sort of scruffiness is so common, well, it isn’t different. Maybe perfect order in dress is like wearing a tie on the loading dock … I don’t know. None of my young military relatives are enlisted army.
Me, for one. I have never seen a Marine traveling in uniform that wasn’t sharp. Army, all the time. If I had seen it and had the time, I would have noted names, times, units and sent a letter off to their command, informing their CO of the total lack of discipline observed. I would also CC it to the appropriate Headquarters for attention.
I said before that I have seen and spoke with a lot of soldiers while travelling and have not seen one of them look unprofessional as the OP has. So maybe he just happens to see the worst.
That being said if a soldier is in an airport waiting area or something waiting for his connecting flight and he unblouses his boots and loosens the laces, fine. but befoire he starts walking around he should reblouse them. I know that it might be something you may not understand, but thats there are rules and regulations on how a uniform is to appear in general, not to mention in public.
Part of a soldiers job is to look professional. especially officers and NCOs. The first part of the NCO creed starts with “No one is more professional than I…” I won’t say its always easy. But its part of being a soldier. the flaps, straps etc the OP meant, I’ll have to reread. If he didn’t mean the pockets on the uniform I too am unsure. (Its not really easy to walk around in ACUs with the pockets unfastened. Honestly you’d have to physically open them and force them to stay open so I don’t know what the OP meant.) I’ll also add that unless a soldier in an airport were dragging long straps around on any kind of bag I probably wouldn’t care. Espeecially if the soldier looked like he just got back from another long deployment. As an NCO myself I’d probably offer to help him square away his gear and get him a cup of coffee. But then, personally, my own style is to correct a soldier by talking not yelling. Maybe its because I had some really good leaders when I was a junior troop. (I had bad ones too, but a lot of good ones) and they helped me by treating me like a person, not a number.
(Please don’t take that as soldiers are treated like numbers all of the time. Yeah, we have our share of times when it seems like that, but it can argued that its usually a case by case thing. With the exception of recruiting I can’t say i’ve been treated badly)
cursing in uniform/ In public, well its like anyone else. But I learned how to curse creatively in the army. Anyone on active duty that doesn’t occassionally drop an f-bomb is lying, a saint or a chaplain.
Believe it or not, Opalcat, there was a time when I was a bit of a peacenik myself. Not as much as you perhaps, but I had my moments in my youth. Admittedly I always admired those that served since many older relatives had done so in their youth, but I never wanted to join myself. I didn’t plan on doing more than one enlistment when I joined, but I found that I kind of liked it in some ways so I stayed in. I have had times when I wish i was not in the military, but then I have had more times when I’m proud to be in it. So I can understand how you can’t imagine the discipline stuff in the military. I was frightened by it myself when I first signed up. But I found that its not that hard. A lot of the things the military demands of soldiers are things I’d do anyway. (but then I’ve always cared about my appearance…I don’t shave if I’m not on duty, so on weekends I will sport my 5 o’clock shadow proudly. But once I get into uniform its clean shaven all the way. I’m not as cheap as my former boss though. He used to keep reciepts from the barbershop and claim his haircuts as a business expense. Which it is, you cna really do that. I’m just not cheap enough.). Its not as harsh as you may think. The last time someone corrected me on my uniform was 2 years ago…the first sergeant I had then merely came up to me and said “reblouse your boots, your laces are hanging out.”. That was it. Its not like I got 40 lashes or anything. I fixed my laces and everything was hooah.
i shouldn’t have linked “hooah”, but I’ve always found it funny. It so multi purpose its hilarious to me, and this is coming from someone with very nearly 20 years of service.
Fellow AF officer checking in. In addition to agreeing with the OP, let me add another Army travel scenario I encountered on my last trip home that had me fuming…one of the rules of military travel is that you cannot travel in First Class in uniform, at all. This gives the public a negative impression of the military (specifically, that taxpayers might be footing the bill for said First Class ticket). We are supposed to decline bumps to FC in uniform too. While traveling home for my father’s funeral, I was in first class (my dime, the only last minute ticket available on the flight), and an (in uniform) Army Major was seated in first class (Actually, sprawled out across 2 seats, but thats just details).
In addition, several in-uniform junior enlisted troops headed to the back of the plane during boarding. Seeing as how I was placed in FC by virtue of it being the only thing left on the flight, I guess I could see the Maj being in the same boat, but the proper thing to do here would be to ask the arline to switch you with someone…or at the very least, give the damn seat to the junior troop! Maybe that’s not in any rulebook, but damn…probably a little thing in the grand scheme, but it certainly got under my skin a bit, and didn’t give me a positive impression of the Maj in question. I should have said something, but in my state of mind at the time, I was in no way certain that I could have been the proper level of civil to a senior ranking officer…
What you said is the mark of a good officer. Had you not paid for the ticket yourself you’d have given the seat to a troop returning from Iraq or Afghanistan? good on you sir.
Among the qualities I most value in myself and in others are distinctiveness, individuality, and personal expression. These are among the most important aspects of being human, to me. I would sooooooo not get along in the military. Just the concept of a uniform beyond identifying someone as a member of a group is repellent to me. For example, when I worked at Pizza Hut, we had to wear some sort of Pizza Hut shirt or a red shirt, and an apron. Red and/or the Pizza Hut logo was enough to make us easy to spot as “staff” for the customers, and therefore was enough uniform to mark us adequately. Beyond that level, I find the whole concept (let alone the reality) of uniforms just unimaginably awful. So the idea that having a slight difference between your uniform and the next guy’s being some horrible sin? I don’t get it, no. I don’t WANT to get it. That reality is like some sort of third level of hell or something and I hope I never have to understand it on any deeper level. (The fighting/war part of being in the military is obviously far beyond the horizon into “hell” territory. I’m not trying to minimize that at all. Just saying that I can’t even grasp the military thing on the totally simple level of clothing, let alone actions and all the rest.)
Who the hell are you? What does it matter? Would you be as receptive if someone saw you, deemed that you–for some arbitrary reason–didn’t meet their expectations, and informed your employer?
I come from a family of military service, my grandfather was in WWII but had left the army by the time I was born. However, my stepfather served in the Canadian Armed Forces. He married my mother when I was nine, so introduction into the military lifestyle was sudden and shocking for me. Back then, at least, any travel that was done on a military dime required my father to don his uniform (I won’t have the terms or names right, but it’s the dress uniform - not the super fancy red one, and not the fatigues). The kids (me and my step-sister) had to wear dresses, with nylons, and closed toe shoes. My mother also had to be appropriately attired. Here is my experience, from a non-military perspective.
People treated my step-father with respect. An inordinate amount of respect. I have no doubt that it was solely due to the dress. I love my dad to death, but he does not have a commanding presence. When my father traveled, he was a representative of the service, and we, by extension, were as well. It was a pain in the arse, but looking back, I think it was one of the things that taught me to respect a man in uniform. The implicit lesson I learned was that this was a man on business for his country, and that he took his duty with the seriousness and diligence it entailed. My dad would have been appalled to see a soldier in poor dress at an airport - in fact, I doubt he would have been permitted on the plane.
I think it’s a subtle but important message about the relative seriousness of military service. This is not your average job. Men and women in the military face expectations, especially in war, that civilian life cannot understand. I suspect that the rigor on dress is part and parcel to the rigor on barracks cleanliness or any other enforced order in the army, and that this plays heavily in the rather more serious business of combat-readiness training.
( again, I qualify that is referring only to my own hangups, not any intrinsic flaw in the religion itself - obviously it works for many ).
