I disagree.
What was the insult?
That’s not what was said:
Giraffe, I am a former smoker who also used to weigh over a hundred pounds more than I do now. The harassment that smokers put up with just does not compare with the ridicule and humiliation that overweight people endure.
But even if that weren’t true and weight problems were just a habit or a choice and not a compulsion or often terminal disorder, hajario seemed to be mean-spirited and off topic in more than one exchange.
Lynn started the snark by accusing hajario of jumping to conclusions, when he wasn’t even talking about her. I can’t even believe hajario got warned for this. Why didn’t Lynn? Normally I would expect both of them to get told to stick to the topic or something, not an actual warning to the second snarker…
I wasn’t trying to equate them, I was trying to show how the exchange looks when you shift the topic away from weight, which is clearly a sensitive topic for some people. To me (neither obese nor a smoker), both exchanges look about the same: one person volunteered details about a personal habit, someone else posted something disapproving, and then they exchanged a few snippy words.
People are justifiably sensitive about a range of issues: obesity, smoking, driving, debt, drugs, guns, bankruptcy, interracial marriage, sexual identity, etc. etc. etc. It’s one thing to shield people from abuse (outside of the Pit, anyway), it’s another to shield them from hearing any negative reactions to information they offer regarding those issues. And one person’s midnight pie is another person’s credit card debt – are we going to smack down all disapprovers equally or does it depend on who it’s a hot button issue for?
hajario was definitely snippy after Lynn got a little snippy with him, but it seems like a huge overreaction to give a formal warning for it. Just my two cents.
Since you guys are now more in the habit of revealing post reporting info, could you verify if Lynn was actually the sole complaint maker here? Giraffe’s analogy lines up with my reading of what happened and I think most objective readers would see the same. Maybe hajario got snooty but Lynn is the one who made it all personal.
And I disagree that he took a couple of pokes at her weight. The only likely candidate I see is that damn italics he had to use on “I” in the middle of his last sentence. Not worthy of a warning given the sudden heat of the discussion, brought on by Lynn, ISTM.
eta: I think snooty is a much better adjective
SmartAleq, personal attacks are not permitted in ATMB.
While you may discuss Lynn’s posts in the other thread (as others have done), your post here is out of line for this forum.
You have been warned. Please do not do this again.
-xash
Administrator
Xash I might be confused but I thought moderators / adminstrators are not allowed to be pitted but their actions / postings can be discussed in ATMB?
My understanding is that moderator decisions (or their posts in their capacity as moderators) may no longer be disputed in the Pit, only in ATMB. However, I’m not aware of any rule that prohibits a mod or admin for being pitted for their posts in their personal capacity as members of this board. In this case, the subject (Lynn) made posts in her capacity as a member of these boards, not as a mod/admin. Smartaleq’s post was not directed towards her moderator decision (or her posts in her capacity as admin), but to her personal posting habits (perceived or otherwise). SmartAleq is free to discuss her posts in ATMB, but doing so in the manner he did was out of line for this forum.
Therefore, for example, you may dispute or discuss any moderator decision (or post) I make in my capacity as a mod, only in ATMB. But if you wanted to Pit my posts made in my capacity as a member here (on these boards), you are free to Pit me for that. Because the line may sometimes seem blurred, I always sign off when I’m responding in my capacity as admin.
My sentence structure might have been ambiguous:
“While you may discuss Lynn’s posts in the other thread (as others have done), your post here is out of line for this forum.”
should read as…
“While you may discuss Lynn’s posts [made] in the other thread [in this thread](as others have done), your post [that you made] here [in this thead in ATMB] is out of line for this forum.”
Does that clarify your question?
-xash
Administrator
No, I didn’t make any sort of complaint. I didn’t report the post, nor did I even bring up the subject to any other person, either those on staff or those regular posters that I occasionally email/PM back and forth with.
Let me repeat. I did not tell ANYONE about that post, and I certainly didn’t suggest any action be taken. Since hajario had quoted a small fragment of my post, I assumed that he was directing his comments to me.
That sounds like such a contorted sentence :smack:
On preview: referring to my second to last sentence in the post above.
No worries Xash you clarified it fine for me. Thank you!
So SmartAleq would have been fine if she started another new thread, this time in the Pit, remarking about Lynn’s original post?
In my view, mods and admins should not reveal the identity of any specific poster who reported any specific post. Doing so would undermine the effectiveness of the post reporting system.
If this has happened in the past (and I’m not aware that it has), it should not have happened. The only exceptions would be if a poster chooses to disclose that they have reported a post, or if a mod/admin responds to confirm that they have (or not) received a report(s) for a specific post.
If this happens in the future, please bring it to my notice.
Thanks.
-xash
Administrator
To my knowledge, yes, this would be within the rules, as long as the thread is not about (and does not make reference to) mod action or inaction with regards to Lynn’s or hajario’s original post (that’s what this thread is for), nor about (nor make reference to) Lynn’s position as mod/admin, nor call for mod action with regards to the original post, thread or posters involved (that’s what this thread is for), and the content of the post itself does not break any Pit rules (for which you may seek clarification from any Pit mods).
-xash
Administrator
Seriously, the rules of this board have gotten so ambiguous that even the mods and admins can’t keep up. I’ve seen twickster on more than one occasion make a very dubious ruling, then abandon the thread when people start calling her on it. Take this instance, for example:
People respond, “WTF? Seriously?” She explains:
…then disappears from the thread. She seems a little trigger-happy with the warnings and rulings. Just sayin’.
Well, I asked because I think that if this had involved any other posters I can’t imagine a mod response stronger than “Cool it off, folks”. Again I’ll note that you were the one that got all het up about hajario “jumping to the conclusion” that people eat pie in the middle of the night when that was precisely what you said. If you didn’t complain, (in which case, I really doubt anyone reported the post) then I can only assume twickster should recluse herself from modding any thread that touches on over eating or you, whichever is the one that causes her to be irrational.
Wait…what???
The complaint is that since hajario quoted a “small fragment” or “one sentence” in Lynn’s post, it’s assumed that his comment is an attack on her?
So…if he’d quoted the whole thing, he’d be making a generalized comment not directed at her?
Just when I thought the rules couldn’t get any screwier…
Also, since when are snarky remarks banned? Every other fucking time I remember someone complaining about snarky remarks*, we’ve been told that we follow in the footsteps of Cecil and that snarky remarks are ok as long as they’re not personal insults (and the famous “If ignorance were Corn Flakes you’d be Kelloggs” line referenced*).
Can we expect this new “No snark any time” rule to be enforced all the time in all forums? Or just in MPSIMS? Or is it another “one-time” rule like the “Thread titles have to be 100% accurate” or “No snarking on dead celebrities in MPSMIS” rules that are only enforced once to get someone and then forgotten?
*Yes, I know the brand/cereal is wrong.
Two people, neither of them Lynn, reported the post.
Well Fenris, when hajario said:
it was clearly a direct attack on Lynn. I mean the guy is obviously saying that she’s so fat that her BMI screws up the national average. What mean spirited hyperbole!
I don’t understand this at all, in light of what SmartAleq posted. SmartAleq was talking about how Lynn Bodoni talks about her bodily functions regularly; it had nothing to do with moderator actions.
Also, would it be a defense against the personal insult warning that SmartAleq received if she posted a link to every time Lynn Bodoni has discussed her personal bodily functions on this board? In other words, I’m asking if a comment being the truth is a defense against a personal insult warning.
And, to address the OP of this thread, that was a pretty weak warning for Hajario. I agree with other posters that an exchange like that should have earned both posters a “cool it, guys,” not an official warning.