My house is on a corner that has a stop sign. I am in the unfortunate habit of running the stop sign and was busted by a cop sitting at the other stop sign yesterday. I saw him but since I was 50 ft from my driveway, I just pulled on in. He proceeded to pull in behind me and write me a ticket.
Since he was in my yard/on my property could I have told him to leave? I guess he could have stood out in the street, written the ticket and put it in my mailbox but I’m just curious about the legality.
Nope. I’m quite sure that a police officer has the right to follow you even into your house if you flee.
Lessons learned here:
[list=1][li]Don’t run the stop sign.[/li][li]Don’t evade the police.[/list=1][/li]
Actually, I’m just jesting about #2 in this instance because you didn’t evade the police. What you did was to get out of traffic, a responsible act.
No, I’m not asking about running. I’m asking about just standing there and telling him to get off my yard.
An officer is generally allowed to enter a private dwelling if they are in “hot pursuit” of a criminal leaving the scene of a crime. Cite. I assume that this would extend being able to follow you onto private property, i.e. your driveway, as well.
You could have ran inside your house. He can not chase you into your house. Not for a traffic infraction. That’s a right reserved for felonies. It would not have prevented the ticket, though, and you would probably have gotten another one for fleeing… BUT he would not be allowed in to get you.
As far as making him leave from your front yard. An unfenced front yard does not have the same rights as a fenced in back yard, or even a gated and fenced front yard.
Where in the yard was he? Just the driveway? Then you couldn’t really make him leave. He’s not going to stay there long - just long enough to write a ticket. If he tried to stay in your yard and watch the stop sign to catch speeders, then yeah, you could tell him to leave. But it’s like when someone uses your driveway to turn around or something. They’re not going to be there long enough for anything to come of it. They’re already leaving anyway. The cop’s leaving, but he just has to do something really quick. Like when a neighbor walks into your unfenced front yard to get a ball or his cat or something. It’s pretty much accepted.
But if he followed you into your house, that’s another story. At that point he not only becomes a trespasser, but an Armed Trespasser. That’s a felony, so now you can citizen’s arrest him 
Good luck trying though. Best you could get would be a good civil lawsuit.
I’m a little bit confused now regarding the OP. It was my understanding that the cop pulled his cruiser into his driveway and got out to write you a ticket. And you want to know whether you could have told him at that point to get off your property. Is that it?
If that’s the case, I believe the answer is “No.” He’s in your driveway (and maybe on part of your lawn or front porch as well) for a legitimate police purpose (i.e., to cite you for a traffic violation). He hasn’t illegally invaded your privacy nor has he illegally trespassed on your property.
I look forward to seeing Bruce on Cops someday.
Remember, the entertainment value of your proposed strategy will be greatly enhanced if you wear a mullet, a tractor-cap, and a wife-beater t-shirt (or better yet, are shirtless).
Bad boys, bad boys
What you gonna do
When they come for you . . .
Bad boys, bad boys
**Bear_Nenno **- so what you’re saying is, that all those idiot kids on World’s Scariest Police Chases who run from the cops in an attempt to get home and hide under their bed actually have a legal basis for considering themselves, er, “safe at home?”
Further, that those whackos could defend themselves against an armed home invader (who happens to be a cop) if he attempts to enter the house?
:rolleyes:
You must cite, my friend.
You must read his first four sentences, my friend.
Fleeing to avoid apprehension might just be a felony of itself; certainly it is a crime.
I would think it also would give the officer the needed probable cause to think there is more going on than an attempt to avoid a traffic ticket, and hot pursuit, even into the house, might be warranted.
It would be a BAD idea.
I am also certain that the idea of “I made it home before you caught me, so you can’t give me the ticket unless you wait for me to leave” would not fly very far.
If one tried the run in to the house bit and the cop ordered that person to stop and they kept going, don’t they, at that point, become a felon so the cop could continue into the house?
Bruce: I realize that you’re not asking about fleeing–did you not see the word jesting in my posting? At any rate, the police officer can very well pursue you for fleeing had you been so doing. As I said above, your moving out of the traffic lanes was responsible. On the other hand, running the stop sign was not.
I don’t think bare assertions have ever qualified as a citation – especially something as bald as, “You could have ran inside your house.”
I don’t understand. Do you disagree that an officer would be allowed to enter a house where a person who has committed a felony is hiding?
I read the first four sentences – it’s still bullshit. A cop has a every right to pursue a fleeing suspect. First of all, evading arrest is a felony in and of itself. Furthermore, running from a cop who’s simply writing you a ticket is incredibly suspicious behavior and would on its own be enough to engender reasonable suspicion of the person sufficient to justify a Terry stop. Of course, by all means flee into the house – you’ll not only lose your door, but when the cop cuffs you he’ll be able to do a search incident to arrest and find any contraband you have nearby.
–Cliffy
I’m not a lawyer. I want to know what his conclusions are based upon. Hence, I asked for a cite.
Well, let’s separate a couple concepts…
First, in California at least, fleeing from an infraction is not a felony, it’s a misdemeanor (unless you do so in reckless disregard for the safety and lives of others - usu. including the police chasing you). So you probably wouldn’t have to worry about felony resisting.
However, your flight from the scene would give the police officer probable cause in any event I can imagine to believe that a crime was happening, so he could pursue you, and it doesn’t have to be a felony for him to be able chase you. Many jurisdictions limit a police officer’s right to pursue you for infractions, but that’s mostly policy (in order to avoid high-speed chases resulting in civilian deaths).
Your flight in your home would create exigent circumstances to give the officer the right to enter your home in pursuit of you, no matter what he could or later did charge you with.
Fist of all, when it comes to what crimes are felonies and what crimes are not… there are some variations among the states. I’m in Florida, so when I say that simply running away from a cop - whether in a car or on foot - is merely a misdemeanor, I’m talking about in Florida… just in case it may be different where you are. But the rest of this discussion should be universal throughout the states. Ok, with that out of the way:
In a manner of speaking yes… but they have to be running for a simple infraction (most are running because they stole the car - a felony- so right away this can’t benefit them), and they have to make sure that "during the course of the fleeing or attempted eluding [they dont drive]* at high speed, or in any manner which demonstrates a wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property".* That would be a make their running a felony according to Fl state statute 316.1935.
That’s almost impossible to do because as you can see by the wording, that crime is more objective than subjective. If it’s the cop’s opinion that they comitted that crime, there’s a lawful felony arrest. So those kids are not going to get away with anything.
No. First of all that’s not a home invasion. Home invasion is forcibly entering an occupied residence with intent to commit a robbery and actually robbing the residents - not just coming in the house armed. SS 812.135
But to answer your question:
It depends what you mean by “defend themselves”. If you mean using reasonable means to resist a false arrest, then yeah.
If you mean shooting the cop as if he were a burglar or robber, and the officer was acting in good faith, then No! An officer acting in good faith is protected and you can’t just kill him because he mistakenly chased you into your house for a misdemeanor.
That statement about the citizen’s arrest was more of a joke than anything else. It’s one of those things that are technically true but so ridiculous they’re irrelevant.
As I stated, “fleeing to avoid apprehension might just be a felony of itself” in your state. Maybe, but I doubt it. But yes, it is a crime. However, not being a felony, “hot pursuit” does not apply.
No. I don’t believe that resisting arrest without violence is a felony anywhere. Maybe though.
cliffy If your post was not so ignorant, it would actually be offensive!! Are you now saying that “reasonable suspision” alone justifies a warrantless entry to someone’s home. Holy Crap. You have no freaking clue what you’re talking about. At least these other people are simply confused about Hot Pursuit. You seem to be confused about civil rights of US citizens altogether.
And I’ve already shown where fleeing is not automatically a felony. If it is in your state, I’d like you to prove it. If you can’t, just tell me what state you live in, I’ll do my own research…
Ravenman,
My conclusions are based on actual instruction from the academy and backed up by the following federal case law:
United States v Santana holds that a suspect may not defeat an arrest that has been set in motion in a public place by escaping to a private place. HOWEVER, in Welsh v. Wisconsin, 466 U.S. 740, 749-51 (1984), the Supreme Court limited Santana to the hot pursuit of fleeing felons.
Mucho gracias!