note this thread contains information about the hypothetical, semioccasional, sporatic, use of mrijuana for science.*
Observe this quote by Carl Sagan:
OK I was cleaning up a little around the house and I opened an old box I found in the back of the closet. In the box I found an old scrapbook. I read this article written by Paul Greenberg the Pulitzer Prize winning editor of the Democratic Gazette. The article was published a little after Carl Sagan passed away.
I have to say the article made me laugh a bit, and it made me think of the fun I had in College and later grad school. The Article basically introduces us to the behind the scenes smoke of Carl Sagan and his Bill-yuns and Bill-yuns of theories.
It states that Carl was in fact quite high whilst thinking of some of the greatest mathematical concepts and theories. I myself remember writing some of my best term papers high as a kite. I remember saying it made me think Spherically. Basically what I meant by that was I was able to think of all ‘sides’ of a particular issue. It seemed my biases and ignorances went completely away while high. And I was able to cut to the chase and write wonderfully during these 'sessions.
The question is this. We all know the limitations and implications of the use of Marijuana. An we all know that in the US it is illegal. If Carl Sagan, and probably other scientists and theorists used the properties of cannabis to induce a state of mind that supplemented and opened parts of their own personal thought processes to enhance their cognitive efficiency, then why not encourage the scientific use of the plant? Aside from the obvious, the ‘do not opperate heavy machinery’ side to the properties of the plant…Why not? Personally I have seen the efficacy of the plant. (Granted I have not indulged for a few years now since grad school, well, maybe once in a blue moon) But I do remember the effects. I am just wondering for the purposes of science why cannabis is not utilized more. I have read of the medicinal properties the plant has and there is a plethora of information on it on the web, but not to much on modern day scientific utilization of it.
I’m not sure if this is a GD but I thought I’d post it here.
Ah, but try to remember the difference between true insight and stoner babble. There’s not been any clear evidence that use of marijuana leads to true insight. Cite somebody that can state they came up with new and valid concepts while stoned, and then it might be worthwhile to explore. Imagined correlations between racism and Gaussian distribution curves don’t count. And I don’t really recall any breakthroughs that Sagan made in his field, other than to popularize it and explain it very, very well.
Don’t get me wrong, I admired Sagan, and mourned his passing. But I tend to wonder what more he might have done if he hadn’t been stoned so often.
Didn’t Watson and Crick, the scientists who mapped the DNA helix back in the '60s, come up with the idea while on LSD?
Maybe stoner babble is like every other thought that goes through people’s minds. A few insights, one or two really groundbreaking theories, but on the whole it’s mostly the equivalent of “Where did I put my car keys?” and “Hey, the microwave light is orange!”
I should say I am in no way advocating the persistent use of Marijuana. I am simply saying that it is no more harmfull a recreational drug as is alcohol. In fact it effects are quite benign compared to being drunk.
As for its uses in the scientific realm I am not a physical scientist, I do not know the actual effects on the psyche or why it seems to open certain pathways and close others (short term memory). But I started this thread because I read an article about Carl Sagan and his use of the plant. The articel was in an old scrapbook…and I thought others might have some thoughts…
I remember reading an article on the web, I’ll try to find it again. It was talking about the way that memory works and how it relates to consious thought and reasoning. It was comparing the dream state to the waking state. In the dream state images and ideas tend to progress along patterns of association whereas in the waking state thoughts and ideas progress along logical connections. The state that THC induces in your brain is similar to the dream state in that you follow associations more than logic. This is why people have great insights when they’re high, they make associations that sober thought would have passed by in its logical progressions. Most of these are only meaningfull to the stoner, but some of them certainly contain legitamite revelations.
Most accounts of how Crick and Watson discovered the structure of DNA in the early 50s agree that the main intoxicant involved, if any, was pints of warm beer in The Eagle, the pub handily along the road from the old Cavandish in Cambridge.
I think the babble of a stoner and the deep insights of a cosmologist have this in common: Each is operating at the limits of his knowledge and intelligence. If you have packed your brain to bursting with math and physics and you know the remaining mysteries of the universe, then straight or stoned, you will find yourself turning them over and over in your mind, consciously or unconsciously. If you can’t locate a solution rationally, logically, a shot of bourbon or other drug will tend to loosen your associations and allow you to be more tangential, getting you out of the immediate territory of the problem and allowing you to consider obviously incorrect, even crazy ideas, idiotic solutions, upside down, backwards, left-spinning, four dimensional solutions. If you review quantum physics, you could easily convince yourself it was dreamed up by a stoned undergraduate. If you try to explain it to a layman, he will begin to edge away from you as if you are crazy. Quantum physics simply makes no sense. It’s irrational. It took a genius to come up with it. I still can’t imagine how he did it. Remember Einstein’s thought experiments–certainly not something your average physics student would have been taught to do at the turn of the century. But it’s easy to imagine a physics student in the 1960s dreaming about riding a ray of light, observing fellow travelers as they also accelerated to light speed. We live in a world created out of expanded consciousness, which couldn’t function without it. Communications, transportation, manufacturing–all depend on the quantum physics of the silicon chip.
Meanwhile, the stoner by contrast hasn’t bothered to put any knowledge in his brain and everything is a mystery. So he spends most of his time trying to remember where his car keys are.
I’m a little confused about one of your points: Are you saying that “the stoner” and “the cosmologist” are mutually exclusive? Did you ever hang out with the Astronomy majors in university? That might change your opinion…
Regarding the OP…here’s a link to the articlein which “Mr. X” (Carl Sagan) sounds like a marijuana evangelist…damn, who needs Willie Nelson?
I differentiated between “stoner” and “physicist” to prevent a list moderator from having a coronary at the suggestion that normal–even super extraordinary–individuals might (gasp!) smoke a joint once in a while for pleasure.
Of course marijuana is a scourge of the earth, more addictive than heroin or mah jongg, cursing its users to a marginal life collecting returnable bottles from recycling bins. No one with an IQ above 50 would ever use marijuana for anything but the most rigorous, physician-supervised, peer-reviewed scientific study. And George W. Bush is the elected president of the United States.
It’s important to throw the moderators a bone once in a while in order to keep one’s posting privileges.