What I don’t understand is how the terrorists could be ballsy enough to just use box cutters. I would think that it would leave too much possibility of resistance. How could they be sure that boxcutters would be sufficient to control ~100 people or more?
Nukeman, a victim called her husband and told him there were cardboard cutters.
Contrary to some posts in the many related threads, the hijackers had to include trained pilots.
Turning American Flight 11 to the south, navigating to New York City, and more importantly, descending from 29,000 feet with losing control was not a simple task.
See http://slate.msn.com/Code/explainer/explainer.asp?Show=9/11/2001&idMessage=8270 for a good description of what was involved.
The use of such things as box cutters (if true) just demonstrates that if an individual wants to achieve an end badly enough, he will use whatever means he can.
I don’t think that the govt. is hiding anything due to embarrassment. And there has been so much talk about lax security at airports, but remember this: everyone is speaking as the FAA as one entity and that it failed yesterday…but the FAA is a collective, and as you trickle down, the bottom rungs of this are the thousands of people providing “security”. The goal of each of these individuals, as they perform their daily duties, is likely not to protect travellers and airlines from tragedy, but to work their 8 hours and get a paycheck. So pit one of these guys against an individual who has decided he will die for his cause…you can see who wins. The more motivated individual will find a way to overcome his obstacles.
Go back to sentence one: if an individual wants to achieve an end badly enough, he will use whatever means he can. And in the end, his internal motivation alone may be all he needs. What we have to take away from this is the comprehension that not everyone thinks like we do. The idea of sacrificing our lives to commit mass destruction is a foreign idea (forgive the pun) and until we realize this and know how to defeat it, we are in danger.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Rillian *
**Contrary to some posts in the many related threads, the hijackers had to include trained pilots.
Turning American Flight 11 to the south, navigating to New York City, and more importantly, descending from 29,000 feet with losing control was not a simple task.
Assuming of course that the pilot was immediately removed and replaced with a T. The T’s could have easily had the pilot turn south and descend and then taken over when they were in visual range of the city.
I was thinking a similar thing. Remember that this plane was the last to be taken over. Many people may have heard the news of what the planes were going to do over their cell phones.
One thing though: eyewitnesses stated that they saw “smoke” coming from the plane before it went down. Some have speculated that this was actually fuel being dumped. This tells me that somebody knew what they were doing when they crashed the plane, the pilot maybe. I believe that somebody died a hero. We may never know who.
anectdote: a friend of mine was about 10 miles from where the plane crashed in Somerset county, in the middle of the woods, digging a ditch. They didn’t have the radio on and didn’t know of the incidents. They heard and felt the blast, turned off the equipment, and drove home. They’re still shaken up.
I’ve seen several threads and heard many conversations which question the bravery or intelligence of passengers who would allow a group armed only with a knives to take over and crash a plane. I know for myself, though, up until yesterday I would have sat there and cooperated fully. Other than that flight that crashed off of Tanzania a few years back, it seems that in almost every hijacking the vast majority of passengers are released safely, either by the hijackers or rescue teams. Attacking a group of men armed with knives, in cramped conditions, with no way of knowing if any other passengers would join in, would have seemed by far the most dangerous choice. It’s easy to play Rambo or Passenger 57 or some other heroic fantasy in your mind, I would guess when it’s really happening that option becomes a lot harder.
As mentioned by many others, yesterday changed all that. Any hijacker is going to be assumed to be on a suicide mission, and be faced by a planeload of passengers who figure they have nothing to lose.
Hell, I think the next drunk businessman who starts an “air Rage” incident will be boiled in hot towels.
Oh really? Imagine this: A wild-eyed terrorist is holding a box-cutter to the throat of a helpless child, and telling the passengers to move to the back of the plane. Are you going to sacrifice the life of child (or other hostage) in the off-chance that you can be a hero? I don’t believe you. This is just a bunch of swagger from someone who’s only courage comes from the safety of distance from real danger.
Gee, you don’t need to get personal with the guy. He did say “If I had the choice between my plane crashing, and rushing some dude with a small knife.” That says if he knows the plane’s going to crash/explode, he’d try to be a hero. Given the same certainties, I know I would. Sometimes you have to let the little girl die to save 50,000 people.
He was rather rude, but I doubt that I would have the guts to attack the guy who was threatening the child. I hope so. If I were a pilot barricaded in the cockpit and the guy had a kid’s fingers and a pair of wire cutters, I’d open up.
Just saw one of the news shows interview the wife of one of the passengers. They (husband/passenger and wife) talked four times. Second call, she told him about the WTC tragedies. Third call, he asked her for more info about the incidents, and seemed to be mulling things, putting things together (his wife indicated this was her impression). Fourth call he said he and some other passengers were up to something soon.
It indeed appears that passengers were willing to ensure their own deaths to assure further horror not visit others.
I am at a loss for words regarding such heroism.
I agree with Fear Itself. It’s so easy for people to sit behind their computers and talk about what they’d do. Most probably have never (and, God willing, will never) have to deal with such a situation. But if it really makes you feel better, then blather on.
But if you really want to do something heroic, go down to the red cross and give blood.
And maybe show some damn respect for those who died.
Gav
This is getting a little out of hand for a GQ, so I’m closing this. If you have any comments that are appropriate for Great Debates, you may post there, perhaps in the thread Revised Plane Hijacking Protocol
bibliophage
moderator GQ