Hilarity from Daily Kos

[Kobal2]

@silenus

In the Chinese model, when you get caught you get shot. Then they bill your wife for the bullet.

That may be going the slightest hint of a tad overboard, but yes. The point is not whether fraud is non-existent (unless **Cheesesteak **is going for the “it it’s not perfect it’s worthless” tack. Which would be so *thoroughly *retarded it would leave me quite speechless). It’s whether you get to defraud twice.

[Captain_Amazing]

I asked my dad what he thought, and he said that, if you really think it’s a problem, put a longer ban, even possibly a permanent ban, on companies convicted of criminal fraud. But, he said, the bigger problem, and the thing he was more vehement about, was the conflicting procurement rules of DoA, DoD, and the rest of the federal government. What he’d really like to see is a standardization of the procurement rules, a review of existing procurement regulation with the aim of getting rid of duplicative or burdensome rules, and more sunsetting. He had the attitude that that caused more problems and waste than fraud did.

[Cheesesteak]

Actually, the point is… First, the article doesn’t say jack about companies defrauding the government, just that they were sued for fraud and either settled or were found guilty.

Second, playing Mr. Hardnosed Producer is going to guarantee reduced competition for your contracts, it costs a shitload of money to service a big government contract, and you can’t do that if Mr Bigshot has a hair trigger on cancelling your contract. So, you save piddling shit in reduced fraud, and pay boatloads in higher prices.

Third, if there is any country to avoid emulating WRT fraud, it’s China.

[Zeriel]

@Captain_Amazing

I don’t know that I share your outrage, really. The link says that $1.1 trillion went to contractors (and their parent companies) who had received a judgement or settlement, either criminally or civilly, for fraud, not that they had defrauded the US government of 1.1 trillion. And this is also over the past 10 years. So if, in 2001, a Boeing subsidiary had settled with the feds over a civil fraud suit, Boeing and all its subsidiaries would be in the report.

I love your choice of examples–Boeing itself had a fairly major fraud case in 2003 over the KC-135 maintenance program. Not to mention some other choice bits. http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/1004/100104g1.htm

[Voyager]

@Cheesesteak

Actually, the point is… First, the article doesn’t say jack about companies defrauding the government, just that they were sued for fraud and either settled or were found guilty.

Second, playing Mr. Hardnosed Producer is going to guarantee reduced competition for your contracts, it costs a shitload of money to service a big government contract, and you can’t do that if Mr Bigshot has a hair trigger on cancelling your contract. So, you save piddling shit in reduced fraud, and pay boatloads in higher prices.

If companies see fines for fraud, when they get caught that is, as a cost of doing business, it is costing us as taxpayers a lot. Losing out on big contracts might encourage them to enforce the supervision that is already supposed to be there. There are plenty of legitimate ways of overcharging the government, after all. And I’ve talked with enough people in the industry to know that high prices are not necessarily signs of overcharging or fraud.

Third, if there is any country to avoid emulating WRT fraud, it’s China.

In China, it appears that people get shot if the government is unable to keep the scandal out of the paper, or if there is danger of it hurting foreign trade. Poison in toothpaste shipped overseas, boom. Building schools that fall down in earthquakes, no problem.