Hillary Clinton and her campaign are nothing but smoke & mirrors

Great Debates
21

[QUOTE=John Mace]
It’s the curse of the Senator. Being a largely collaborative body, it’s hard to pin down what any one Senator has actually done. OTOH, it’s easy to distort a Senator’s legislative history to spin any number of narratives. Which is why they usually don’t win, and why this race has been so interesting-- the front runners in the Democratic primary have all been Senators. Clinton, Obama, Edwards.
[/QUOTE]

To take this thought a step further, I think that a candidate(any candidate)'s experience and record in the Senate is immaterial to what type of President s/he would be, other than giving a broad idea of the types of policies that they might tend to support. The job requirements of a Senator and a President are vastly different, it’d be like saying that you wanted Al to rebuild your engine because he did such a good job mounting and balancing your tires. The President is a leader, s/he needs to set policy and lead by example. A senator is a compromiser, s/he needs to give a little/get a little as part of a larger whole. That’s not to say that a president doesn’t need to compromise or that a senator doesn’t lead, but the main focus of the respective jobs is completely different. One could be a great senator but a lousy president and vice versa.

22

[QUOTE=Bricker]
I don’t suppose you have a criminal law that Bush broke, and evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that he broke that law, though. Do you?
[/QUOTE]
Forgot that DUI, did you? Or Cheney’s 2 DUI’s, not that we’re keeping score? Or his AWOL/desertion? (the mere fact of it being uncharged has not restrained you from calling Clinton a perjurer, so that cannot be an important standard for you)

The evidence of his cocaine conviction is not easily handwaved away, either.

23

Any body wonder about the 3am call and McCain.

Some military leaders are put off by McCains hot temper and whether he has the temperament to be prez.

24

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]

Forgot that DUI, did you? Or Cheney’s 2 DUI’s, not that we’re keeping score? Or his AWOL/desertion? (the mere fact of it being uncharged has not restrained you from calling Clinton a perjurer, so that cannot be an important standard for you)

The evidence of his cocaine conviction is not easily handwaved away, either.
[/QUOTE]
What part of open your own thread if you want to continue the Bush bashing hijack did you not understand?

Care to actually answer the question in the OP?
[QUOTE=gonzomax]

Any body wonder about the 3am call and McCain.

Some military leaders are put off by McCains hot temper and whether he has the temperament to be prez.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, what I’m really wondering about in this thread is what Hillary Clinton has done. I keep asking, but nobody can come up with an answer.

25

I don’t want to make this more than it is, but the commanding officer of the largest air squadron in the Navy isn’t that minor of an officer. Furthermore, someone in that position would have had plenty of 3 AM calls.

If we go with the assumption that all kinds of experience can prepare one for further station in life, as is implicit in the Clinton and Obama campaigns, then this can’t really be handwaved away.

Indeed, this is why McCain’s attacks on Romney were out of line - Romney has had plenty of experience as well.

26

[QUOTE=Shayna]

Care to actually answer the question in the OP? Actually, what I’m really wondering about in this thread is what Hillary Clinton has done. I keep asking, but nobody can come up with an answer.
[/QUOTE]

No kidding. So far not a single post has addressed the question in your OP. Not even ElvisL1ves, her fiery partisan, has offered a substantive answer. It’s almost as if there’s no there there, isn’t it?

27

There is no question in the OP - just another hatefest.

28

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
There is no question in the OP - just another hatefest.
[/QUOTE]

Nah, I see a question.

I don’t see any hate in the OP. Maybe you read something I didn’t. Either way, no one has really answered the OPs question yet.

29

(tongue in cheek) There is no answer in ElvisL1ves, only smoke and mirrors. (/tongue in cheek)

Seriously, man, you’re her partisan, give us something. Did she, say, do something to help Bill in Ireland?

30

[QUOTE=Jolly Roger]
Maybe you read something I didn’t.
[/QUOTE]
Like the thread title, and the entire rest of the OP.

If there were any evidence of the question being asked in anything resembling good faith, I’d answer it. But there isn’t. Shayna already knows the only answer she’ll accept.
e-sabbath, that’s an odd thing to call a Richardson supporter.

31

Hi, Elvis! I double dog dare you! Make me feel better about not voting for McCain if she wins the Dem side.

Well, you seem to be her partisan in this thread. Look, I’m still trying to find a Republican I don’t have to hold my nose to vote for.

32

Not hating Clinton as badly as you makes me her partisan?

Thanks for providing evidence of my assessment.

33

Even though the OP is as reasonable as one can get, I’ll bite and ask in good faith. I’m an undecided voter in NC and I want to know what, exactly, Hillary has done to earn my vote for the presidential nominee. Answer?

34

[QUOTE=ZebraShaSha]
Even though the OP is as reasonable as one can get, I’ll bite and ask in good faith. I’m an undecided voter in NC and I want to know what, exactly, Hillary has done to earn my vote for the presidential nominee. Answer?
[/QUOTE]

That’s pretty much the crux of it right there. I think what Shayna is asking and this is my opinion, is what makes Clinton so special in terms of being ready to be POTUS? What makes her more likely to pass legislation than Barack, when the record [read facts] clearly shows he is more adept and reliable at passing said legislation. And further, like Zebra said, what specifically has Hillary done to earn those undecided votes?

35

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
Like the thread title, and the entire rest of the OP.

If there were any evidence of the question being asked in anything resembling good faith, I’d answer it. But there isn’t. Shayna already knows the only answer she’ll accept.
e-sabbath, that’s an odd thing to call a Richardson supporter.
[/QUOTE]

But you can’t know what answer **Shayna ** will accept.It seems to be a straightfoward question. Sure, Shayna favors Obama, but that doesn’t mean she’ll dismiss an answer to the question she herself asked. What makes you think its not in good faith? Its not a trick question.

36

Even if Shayna is everything you say, she is not the only audience here. There are a lot of people reading this. You are coming across as evasive. I’m of the impression that Shayna may have a point due to the fact that 35 posts in and nobody has yet pointed to “one substantial piece of legislation of any significance that Hillary Clinton has sponsored, that has become law, in her seven years in the Senate.”

It’s a pretty clear cut question. I’ve seen Obama posters been questioned like this and at least trying to answer.

That’s very weak. You’re better than that, or at least I had the impression you were.

37

Hey, I don’t hate Hillary any more than I hate Martha Stewart. I’m not a fan of her, but I don’t hate her, Elvis. She just reminds me of a lot of people I know who I’m really glad I don’t work with anymore. Who are convinced they know what’s best for me better than I do.

… sometimes they’re right. Doesn’t mean I like it any.

So, if you don’t know anything Hillary’s done, I’m still interested in anyone else’s perspective.

38

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
Like the thread title, and the entire rest of the OP.
[/QUOTE]
I’m guessing you didn’t even read the OP, otherwise you would have seen that the thread title is mirroring the post in the very first link she provides which calls Obama’s campaign smoke and mirrors. Are you going to say that calling Obama’s campaign such is reasonable and calling Clinton’s such is hateful?

39

[QUOTE=Shayna]
I’d like her supporters to give me one substantial piece of legislation of any significance that Hillary Clinton has sponsored, that has become law, in her seven years in the Senate.
[/QUOTE]

You’ve already examined her senate record and know the answer to this question. Are you interested in anything else about her history and life’s work?

40

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]

There is no question in the OP - just another hatefest.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]

Like the thread title, and the entire rest of the OP.

If there were any evidence of the question being asked in anything resembling good faith, I’d answer it. But there isn’t. Shayna already knows the only answer she’ll accept.
[/QUOTE]
Elvis, the thread title is intentionally provocative, but a true representation of the crux of my argument nonetheless. Many, if not most threads started in this forum are posted by people who have an opinion on an issue, usually a strong one, who state it decisively and then open the floor for debate amongst those who both agree and disagree. The format of “Resolved: X is Y. Discuss” is boilerplate debate technique. So no, you’re wrong, this was, in fact, a good faith post with the intent to discover what Hillary Clinton’s qualifications are to be President of the United States of America.

Which brings me to the many questions, not just one, that I have posed throughout this thread. Here, I’ll repeat them all again. . . [ul][li]What is one substantial piece of legislation of any significance that Hillary Clinton has sponsored, that has become law, in her seven years in the Senate? I couldn’t find anything, but I admitted to giving up after an hour of searching through “co-sponsored” legislation. Is there anything?[/li][li]What is one thing she’s done, with demonstrable results, that show how she’s able to build bridges and work alongside her Republican counterparts? Why should I believe that she’ll be able to break the gridlock that has become SOP in Washington? [/li][li]What is just one success she’s had that is in any way related to any of her campaign claims as to what she says she’ll do as President?[/li][li]What has Hillary Clinton done, specifically, that proves that she will be able to accomplish any of her campaign promises?[/li][li]What exactly makes her qualified, let alone more qualified, to be the person to answer the phone when there’s a world crisis?[/li][li]What has her 7 years of legislative experience brought us in the way of change?[/li][li]With all her knowledge of the inner workings of Washington, what positive impact has she had on our current government and how it operates?[/li][li]What major accomplishments of any sort, does Hillary Clinton have that offer a representation of her body of work as it would apply to President H. Clinton?[/ul] Hillary Clinton’s supporters are trying to get her elected to represent all of the rest of us, too. Therefore, I believe we have a right to know the answers to these questions. She isn’t just going to represent you if she’s elected, you know. [/li][QUOTE=yojimbo]

It’s a pretty clear cut question. I’ve seen Obama posters been questioned like this and at least trying to answer.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed. Which is why I think it’s only fair that Hillary’s supporters be held to the same expectations as those of us who’re supporting Barack Obama. Thanks for the support. And thanks to all the others who’ve basically said the same. I appreciate it guys!

ETA, missed this while composing the above:
[QUOTE=Antinor01]

You’ve already examined her senate record and know the answer to this question. Are you interested in anything else about her history and life’s work?
[/QUOTE]
I believe this post addresses that. However, I would like to respectfully point out that I’ve done nothing more here than re-post a list of questions already previously asked in this thread, so the answer was already there for you to find.