We have a limited federal government. Its duties and responsibilities are enumerated in the Constitution. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention “health care.” It is thus my opinion that the federal government should stay out of health care all together.
Like any other service, health care is a luxury, not a right. Let the free market take care of it.
That is probably the most astonishingly stupid statement you have ever posted in this forum, and that’s saying a great deal.
Well said.
it wasn’t a statement. It was a question.
The constitution grows through amendments and interpretation of the powers of the Federal Government. The Constitution is the guidelines for the laws of the USA. These change over the years. Income Tax, Public Schools, FDA, Permanent Military Organization, FEMA, The Coast Guard, etc. Non of these are are departments and bureaus specifically authorized by the Constitution. If the Congress passes the laws and the President signs it into law and the Supreme Court upholds their legality under the Constitution, then the Federal Government is indeed authorized to provide Health Care for all Citizens of the US. (Or for that matter all Residents if they so choose.)
Jim
Only dead fish go with the flow.
I’m with pkbites on the school issue. Why should I pay to educate someone else’s kid? What authority does the government have to steal my property (i.e. money) and give it to someone else so that can send Little Johnny to school?
We need to get the government out of the education business. Especially the federal government.
I’ve sometimes seen, at SF conventions (Libertarianism is much more highly represented in the SF community than in the general American population, probably partly because of Heinlein’s influence, and partly because SF fandom includes a greater than average number of people convinced of their ability to thrive in a Libertarian society), message-buttons reading, “The United States Constitution has its faults, but it’s a hell of a lot better than what we’ve got now!” Which is a lie, and a damned lie, too. The United States Constitution is demonstrably worse than what we’ve got now. Every modern industrialized state has found it necessary to institute national government functions far in excess of what our Founding Fathers would have found acceptable, and we are no exception.
I’ve also seen message-buttons reading, “Democracy is three wolves and sheep voting on what to have for dinner.” Which is an even more damnable lie. In real life, democracy is three sheep and a wolf voting on what to have for dinner – because, in real life, the sheep outnumber the wolves and that is the only advantage they’ve got!
Right. And that’s why I think we should eliminate them.
Want federal education subsidies? Fine. Pass an amendment.
If we no longer believe in the notion of a *limited * government, then what’s the point in even *having * a Constitution?
The same authority that allows the government to ‘steal’ your money to pay for firemen, policemen, roads, and so on. You receive the benefit of living in an educated society. How much do you think an uneducated populace would contribute to our economy? How much does a sick person contribute? Better to keep people healthy and productive and helping to pay for the services we all use.
Well isn’t that special. You are welcome to your opinion and I am welcome to thank the God I don’t believe in that you hold a minority view.
You are of course against any expansion of the federal government and are for any reduction in the Federal Government. That means we have no hopes of agreeing or changing each others views. It might be easier if you list the Federal agencies that would be allowed to continue under your view. Would you like to?
Jim
Guidelines? The Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not freaking guidlines!
Emphasis mine:
You never heard of the 16th Amendment? What school did you go to?
You lie. It was a statement.
Contained in Section 8 of the Federal Constitution is a list of powers held by Congress. If it’s not on the list, we need to do one of the following:
a) Pass an amendment.
b) Leave it up to the states.
Nowhere in the Federal Constitution does it mention health care, welfare, or education. For each of these we need to either pass an amendment or leave it up to the states.
Let me ask you something: what does a limited government mean to you?
Nevertheless, those are necessary functions of any modern national government worthy of the name.
Absolutely nothing these days, I think we have moved beyond that quaint little idea around the time of Lincoln. If not Lincoln, then definitely Teddy.
pkbites: You read my post badly, I mentioned amendments.
Jim
No, it wasn’t. it was a question. A snarky question, but still a question.
What part of ? don’t you understand?
(or is that a statement and not a question also? :dubious: )
I agree it was a question, but do they allow personal insults in GD if you ask them in the form of a question? Is this GD or Jeopardy? 
Jim
The question mark, which in and of itself is not sufficient to transform an insulting statement into even a rhetorical question, as you know.
pkbites], I don’t know who pissed in your Wheaties, this morning, but you are out of line. You have done nothing but post borderline insults and hostile, substanceless posts since you entered this thread. This is not the Pit and it is not IMHO. If you want to participate, post a reasoned and substantive argument and back off on the unnecessary hostility.
Everyone else: back off, as well. If someone is posting nothing but snideness and anger that does not contribute to the discussion, ignore it, don’t encourage it.
[ /Moderating ]
What fun would that be?!
I’m not sure about that. I’ll have to open a GD thread on it.
Alright, alright. Putting the snarkyness on hold:
First of all, the role of police is, in all actuality, to maintain order so that the unit of government can continue to function (whether that unit is a city/county/state/of federal). The police have no duty to protect individuals.
Second, we are all forced, by the current system, to be a parasite upon other tax payers in one way or another. And we have few choices about it. There is no way I can opt out of fire/police protection whether I pay for it or not!! If my house is burning and I don’t call the fire department, someone else will. And I have no legal power to stop them from hosing off the fire. There is also no way I can opt out of paying for failures who can’t provide for their families whether I want to or not. (food stamps, rent assistance, etc…) But I would like to keep the system that already has almost all of us trapped from expanding!!!
None of you owe me or my family health care any more than I owe it to you!