Historically both ethnic group AND caste had to match. Even within Maharashtra (that’s a state, by the way) there are 3 groups of Brahmins that I know of, if not more (Saraswat, Deshasth, Konkanasth). My parents are both Saraswat, but they come from different cultures (my father is Marathi, my mom is Goan).
Even if you’re both “Marathi” (i.e. from Maharashtra), in a traditional situation, Deshashths wouldn’t marry Saraswats-if they do, it’s a love match, not an arranged marriage.
Just because I’m Brahmin doesn’t mean someone from Kashmir or Bengal or Tamil Nadu who is Brahmin will find me acceptable. To marry within caste, I have to marry another Saraswat, and Saraswats are overwhelmingly Goan (i.e. Konkani) or Marathi (from Maharashtra).
Oh, yes. All the aunties seem to think that the most important characteristics of a girl are (1) her skin tone and (2) her height. I remember being told on many occasions about a girl who was “probably too tall.” Okay, what do I care about how tall she is? “Well, your mother might care.” My mother? The microbiologist/chemist who has been living in the United States since 1965? Even if she does care, I don’t care if she cares! I was so amused. we started referring to her as “The Tall Girl.”
These restrictions rarely apply to Indians in the United States. Arranging is merely a form of family-operated introduction service. Once “bio-data” is exchanged the individuals basically get a free hand.
When you’re in this situation, you don’t really go in with the expectation that you’re going to agree on such a wide range of preferences. You generally go in with a limited handful of deal breakers and hope for a very general level of compatibility. The idea is “Okay, nobody’s perfect and nobody’s just like you; find someone nice and learn to accept your differences.”
Exactly. As I tried to point out before, your caste is generally a subgroup of your ethnic group. It’s not a Hinduism-wide classification.
Yes, for the very traditional, it’s skin, height and education in that order.
The best bit is how your education has to “match”-i.e. I am doomed to doctors, lawyers and investment bankers. And since there are very few Indian lawyers, it’s pretty much doctor after investment banker for me.
If the girl is “more educated” in that she went either to better schools, or worse, has more education, it’s doomed. The boy’s parents will never ever agree or they’ll complain loudly about it. It doesn’t even matter that I know people in finance who make MORE than I do. My parents automatically say “no, we won’t introduce you” to someone with only 1 degree. In that sense, a boy who has a ph.d but makes significantly less than I do is less troublesome, in terms of dealing with the other family, than a boy who has an engineering degree from MIT and makes 2X more.
Incidentally, I am well aware at how petty and crazy that sounds…like not only are we matching up their backgrounds but our degrees have to be matchy-matchy. But I have really learned my lesson on this-people HAVE told my parents “No, she’s too educated” and it sucks.
I often tell my parents I feel like a thoroughbred…like these boys are coming around to feed me carrots and pet my flank and check out how bright and beady my eyes are and if my tail has been properly combed and how fast I can gallop.
hehe, make sure they take good care of your hooves.
It must be odd to exist in such widely disparate cultures. I had an Indian guy at my table today and it was all I could do not to quiz him or ask if he’s from Delhi. Ya’ll have done a great job of explaining these differences.
I have considered reading the Bhagavad Gita. I found a translation online but it was pretty bad. I did not know where it came from.
Yes, we meet through connections here, however, the day my mother brings home a guy for me is the day I officially lose my damn mind. To me, that is horrifying. (You’d have to know my mother) For what it is worth, I’ve been vetoed several times by parents. I had a Jewish boyfriend and his mothers first words to me were “You almost killed my husband.” and I had a father that forbade me from dating his son because I was a bad influence. The father was later nailed for embezzling from the church he was the pastor at AND the post office he worked at. I can’t fathom how I was worse than that.
matchy-matchy cracks me up, now I see you sitting around with reams of paper playing Go Fish.
I’ll not be able to be back here probably until Sunday night. You kind folks can have the weekend off from my insatiable curiosity.
Speaking of which, the powder used during Holi, where can I get some? I think my daughter would LOVE it! (amazingly beautiful colors and it sounds like a great holiday)
The above is standard practise these days and a bit of challenge for the older generation to understand completely. I am looking for a bride myself and i am in a unique Indian hell so i understand what you are saying.
I’m loving this thread. I’ve learned an awful lot. Thanks!
I gotta say that romance in India sounds extremely complicated. Romance can be pretty complicated without the extra complexity that caste & ethnicity seems to add.
What is with the bad birth sign thing…I forget the word, but it something like they can only be married to each other or something like that…
What do Hindus expect someone that was born without a religion and who’s families have rejected having a religion for generations to do? Someone told me everyone is born Hindu until they decided to be something else…was he telling me stories?
I have personally met women practicing some sort of purdah- at least their husbands didn’t allow them out of the house. This was in rural Uttar Pradesh near Bihar.
I thought about it, and there is no one i know who fits that description. I am not arguing there are no such people, its that i have never met such a guy.
I guess you’re asking how this guy is supposed to get married. Its tough, at least in the traditional scheme of things. Of course he was in a city, well heeled and personable and could persuade a young woman to give him due consideration - religion and caste are not deal breakers. Please note that this is true of urban India.
If your question was whether Hindus expect something of atheists - there is no one true answer. I expect you to be a good human being and that is enough for me. Some person else might wonder whether you are a communist and decide to attack you.
We have a fair population of "Rationalists"and “Atheists”, but their overall presence in percentage terms is minimal.
There are a lot of Indians who believe in astrology and who will consult astrologers on a range of issues, especially with respect to matching the horoscopes of two people considering marriage (and finding “auspicious” dates and such). My family doesn’t consult astrologers, but it’s my impression that an astrologer is not generally expected to give a verdict that will interfere with the plans of the person hiring him.
I don’t understand the question. Do what? Anyway, being a Hindu is a matter of birth, not belief. Atheistic Hindus do exist, maybe not in large numbers, but they can be found, especially among the educated.
That’s the whole “nakshatra” thingiemabob. It’s considered bad luck to be born under certain star signs and planets, especially for women. I believe the one you’re sort of screwed by is being born under Mars as a woman. A few of my girlfriends who had cross-ethnicity marriages (i.e. both Desi but one is Malayali, another is Tamil or something) found that the potential in-laws use this usually as an “escape hatch” when it’s apparent that their son/daughter is adamant about marrying out. Like “okay, we’ll let you get married if the nakshatras” match.
There are 2 ways of getting around these issues
a) My cousin was born under Mars so they just got a birth certificate with a more appropriate star sign for her to be born under
b) If you didn’t have to foresight to fake a generically positive nakshatra birth certificate at birth, your fiance/e pays off the astrologer
I’m not positive I’m the age I am, actually. My father is very Machiavellian and was the one who suggested the whole “fake the birthdate” thing for my cousin, and I wasn’t named for a year and only got a birth certificate then so it’s quite possibly my parents fudged the birth dates. They’re like that.
Okay, I sort of have to agree with mallurox that I’ve never heard of a multi-generational family of Hindu atheists but it’s a billion+ so never say never. What I’ve seen happen more frequently is that people are born into Hinduism, and born into a Hindu caste, and come to atheism on their own.
But going on what these 2 are saying, it doesn’t really matter what your BELIEFS are…you have to separate that concept from caste. If you’re born into a Hindu family you are born into one caste or another-it doesn’t matter what your beliefs are.
So if you’re trying to get married
a) In-caste marriage: if you’re going for this option, then likely you’re a practical atheist and you’re going to keep your personal Godslessness on the downlow and marry someone of your own caste.
b) Out-of-caste marriage: doesn’t really matter about the caste so as long as your SO doesn’t care that you don’t believe, what’s the big deal? If you’re going for an out-of-caste marriage you and your SO are likely less traditional anyway.
We all strongly suspect my brother-in-law is an atheist and only goes to temple for curd rice (my sister and I were both raised very religiously, though it’s faded to a a dull throb that only rears its head during Ganesh Chaturthi and Diwali) and to make my sister happy. He won’t come out and say it but the looks on his face are sort of classic. I don’t think he really gives a crap that she’s religious and she was more interested in finding someone Marathi and didn’t really care about the atheism.
and i am in a unique Indian hell so i understand what you are saying.