Absolute outrage at the semblance of Nazism is much like absolute support for it:
Both are founded in emotion, and neither side cares for nuance.
Don’t waste your time fellas, slash2k laid it out perfectly and it fell on deaf ears.
People could happily portray all the German units that weren’t Nazi-only - ordinary Wermacht without the sexy Hugo Boss stylings.
Personally, as a different kind of re-enactor, I have no problem with this sort of thing if it’s in the larger context alluded to above. I wouldn’t go to it, but then I wouldn’t sign up to play SS anymore than I’d play a Confederate, or play a Boer in Boer War re-enactments (we have those).
On the other hand, I have, in my time, portrayed a Viking, a Mongol, an Aztec priest and a Teutonic Knight, and none of those are completely kosher, either. So I’m a fine one to talk.
The Wehrmacht isn’t clean either. It’s a convenient myth for many people, but it’s just that : a myth.
[QUOTE=Miller]
Of course, I’ve met lots of people who like to dress up as these sorts of Stormtroopers. Obviously, if you’re dressing up as Darth Vader, you’re probably not secretly endorsing a pro-destruction of Alderaan position. But, isn’t it possible that the mechanic behind some people wanting to dress up as space fascists is behind some people wanting to dress up as German fascists? Is there a difference between being inspired to dress like a Nazi by watching Triumph of the Will, and being inspired to dress like a Nazi by watching Raiders of the Lost Ark?
[/QUOTE]
Well, there’s the fact that Imperial Stormtroopers never killed anybody for real (and only managed to “kill” one Ewok. ONE. In a running, laser-spewing battle involving mechas on one side and logs on the other. I mean, come on ! :p)
Indeed. How many of your enlightened society cheered a war of agression not too recently?
Utterly flimsy excuses/lies/propaganda were enough to send you flagwaving into a country of ‘towelheads’ to rip apart innocent civilians.
If you keep staring at the swastika as the symbol of evil, limmited to 1940’s Germany, you are indeed sure to miss the true signs of evil.
UPDATED INFORMATION:
The Minneapolis Star Tribune has an articlewith rebuttals from the group and the owner. Here are what I consider to be the pertinents (snipping involved):
“We live in a free country”. Man, I hate people pulling out that one. Sure, you’re free to cater to a group dressed in vile costumes. But the rest of society is equally free to make the choice to eat elsewhere.
Man I hate apologists. “Eating somewhere else” is of course the same as threatening to burn down the building.
And they do; I’m not expert enough to identify the uniforms in the picture, but the re-enactment society lists 30 German units, of which 16 appear to be regular Wehrmacht.
From the [WWII Re-enactment Society (WWII HRS) by-laws:](By-Laws - WWII HRS IV: UNIT RECOGNITION)
Now, this wasn’t an event sponsorted by the WWII HRS, but I think those parts of etiquette from the by-laws are very telling, especially the last two parts. For those that think this is OK to do, why do you think they have those last two in their by-laws?
Those all sound like good and sensible rules, that allow WW2 re-enacting to be carried out, without causing offense or giving the impression of promoting Nazism. Obviously, this is a touchy subject. If the group was marching down main street doing the fascist salute, I’d have very different feelings on the matter.
Did the group(s) at the dinner party violate any of those rules? Looking at the three pictures, I see no flags flown from a pole or a staff. I see no swastika armbands. I’m no expert on uniforms, but I don’t see any black or brown ones. I’ve read no reports of salutes or goose-stepping. The event was held when the restaurant was otherwise closed, so the uniforms were not on public display.
Do you really think these are a bunch of neo Nazis who have spent years pretending to be mere reenactors, so that one day the could finally hatch their real plan-- a swastika buffet in a closed restaurant?
I left out the USSR because its economy was to a large extent insulated from the effects of the Great Depression, and because from the end of the Russian civil War (1922) there was never the slightest vestige of public influence on government policy.
I think they’re just a bunch of losers who think the Nazis were cool.
That said, the belief in question - that Nazis are cool - is not one that should be encouraged, lest it become mainstream. People, as you say, are pretty horrible. They’ll come for the snazzy outfits, and stay for the racial purity. I don’t want that to happen.
And that all went around the question.
… you mean like Abercrombie & Fitch?
They had a crippling agricultural crisis in the early '30s, and there wasn’t any public influence to be had on policy in Germany after 1934 (abolition of parliaments), Japan after 1932 (assassination of Prime Minister Inukai, beginning of military rule), or Italy after 1926 (abolition of elections, Mussolini given title “head of government”).
You asked why they had those rules, I answered:
Again, this is a touchy subject, and it’s easy to offend when Nazi Germany is involved. The rules, I believe, seek to minimize the prospect of offending people, and to clearly establish that the WW2HRS is not pro-Nazi, or neo-Nazi.
If there’s some aspect of your question that I’m missing, please elaborate.
Ahhh…it’s not even close and it’s surprising that you would attempt to make such analogy.
Chick-Fil-a’s owner made some offensive personal comments about his opinion of gays. People stopped eating there. That was an economic and personal decision, not a criminal act like committing arson. It would be a logical fallacy to equate the two.
If this restaurant wants to keep the majority of its patrons returning to its business, then they might strongly consider who they allow to use their facilities and what message that they want to send. Economic times are hard and offending potential customers will only make them harder.
Given the by-laws and the rationale for those by-laws, would one reasonably assume that hosting a party with the vast majority dressed as Nazis and only using the Nazi flag might swim directly against the current of the rationale for those by-laws?
No, not at all. The rationale, as I see it, is to prevent offense, and prevent tarnishing the society as neo-Nazi. This event was neither cause for offense (occuring as it did behind closed doors), nor did it tarnish the society as neo-Nazi (as it was in no way endorsing Nazism; there were no readings of Mein Kampf, no denunciations of Jews, no saluting the Nazi flag…just guys and gals eating sausage in costume, in private).
Further, the Nazi flag is permitted (“All non-political flags may be displayed, however only American and commonwealth flags may be flown from a pole or staff”), as it was the official flag of Germany from 1935 to 1945, and thus has to be part of are-enacting German soldiers of that period.
Germany military uniforms aren’t forbidden, only the black SS, brown SA, political uniforms, Hitler Youth uniforms, and uniforms with a swastika armband. Prohibiting all Nazi-era German military uniforms would preclude re-enacting World War Two.
It’s rather strange to point to these rules, none of which were broken by this event, as evidence that the event was contrary to the rules.