This, of course, means that probaby nobody can prove that you’re not the HOA president, nor that you don’t have the full backing of the board. Try out a few petty tyrannies and see how it goes.
Yeah. I got a few harmless things you can do and see if you get compliance. Then meaner persons can tell you how to get to the good stuff.
I’ve been in groups that said they used Roberts Rules. I haven’t checked, but I’ve been told that under Roberts Rules, you can use any procedure that’s mutually agreeable to the people in the meeting, and so long as no one objects, it’s all fine and official. I’ve never been in a meeting where there was any significant disagreement about how to run the meeting. Maybe a brief discussion (we should do this. No, we need to do that, first. Oh, yeah, let’s start with that.) but that’s about it.
He’d do it for Randolph Scott.
I do not know if that is a good idea but I like how you think.
RANDOLPH SCOTT!
I raised that point earlier. I’m assuming they violated the rules when changing the rules, but who is going to enforce the rules?
That is not true and if someone claims it is, have them show you that rule in the official book. Hint: it ain’t there.
If someone does not raise a timely Point of Order, violations can slip by. And it is possible for a body to violate a rule through the nuclear option. But some violations are a continuing breach and a Point of Order can be raised at any time. And at no time, even by unanimous consent, can a motion violate the bylaws or law. Such motions are automatically null and void if passed.
It is hard to tell what happened here but I suspect the rule change is not legal. The board probably cannot change the standing rules for the entire Association.
It occurred to me a good first petty tyranny would be to hire a law firm to sort all this shit out and make everyone pay their share of the fees to get it sorted.
If they can’t hand a prospective buyer the covenants covering the property I am not sure how anyone can sell a place there (or sell and then maybe find big legal problems in the future).
That sounds like you are agreeing with my (second hand) claim. I didn’t mean to imply that the board could overstep its authority just because no one complained at the moment. Only that it could ignore whatever procedural rules are in the book by unanimous consent of those at the meeting.
That goes both ways. If they violated the rules while changing the rules, legally they don’t have a leg to stand on when enforcing their own rules.
When I was last house hunting just about every place I looked at was part of an HOA, so when I found a place I liked I this is exactly what I did. Got a copy of the rules and walked around the neighborhood and talked to some of the residents. I’ve ben very happy with the way things are run, and the services provided. In fact, this week they’re going to be pressure-washing and re-staining my deck, and next month the termite inspectors are coming by.
The answer is sometimes, but sometimes it cannot. For example they cannot ignore the bylaws or do something in violation of the law. Also, you cannot take action if there is no quorum (except to try to get a quorum to the meeting) even by unanimous consent. And there are some that later on can be called into question, like maybe by an absentee from the original meeting.
And I again remind you that to knowingly violate the rules by a majority of people there is effectively a nuclear option. It is NOT explicitly permitted under Robert’s Rule so if someone claims it is in the book that the assembly can violate the rules by unanimous consent and somehow makes their actions kosher, it is not.
HOAs in general get a bad rap due to some bad actors who become power-hungry tyrants. Fortunately, the people living there know all about them and can warn new buyers so they know what they are getting into. You just have introduce yourself as a prospective buyer and ask them.
Once you’ve purchased your house, it’s in your best interest to attend HOA meetings and become friendly with the board members so you are plugged into what is happening. I did that by volunteering to be on the board in some menial role that allowed me to be privy to the communications between the board members and knew what they were thinking and planning ahead of time.
Like I said earlier, most HOAs are well run and operate as you would expect them to. It’s the few rogue HOA boards you need to be aware of before you buy your house.
On further thought, I think you might be referring to the motion to Suspend the Rules which does allow the body to do things that would normally violate the rules of order and requires a 2/3 vote. However, there are limitations on that as well.
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you mean but I interpreted you post as: If unanimous, the body can do whatever they want. While a unanimous body does have a lot of power to ignore rules that get in their way, that power is not absolute.
As a general proposition, I might argue that HOA horror stories and nightmare situations are a “low probability, high consequence” situation:
When we think of the times that people have sought advice, “sue” or “move” are usually high on the list of recommendations.
Neither of those options holds much appeal to the average person.
This was something else I did for a long time. Unfortunately, I can no longer do so, as the date of the annual meeting now generally conflicts with a time when I need to be out of town.
I actually drive up to my driveway though an alley. The alley has never been cleared of snow.
The rats were roaming though the neighborhood. The rat problem was Eventually taken care of. I don’t know how but I do know there was no HOA involved.
Now that I think about it someone is paying the exterminator to inspect those rat traps. I wonder who since we don’t have a HOA?
Which is why the people who do object to them are better off living with/next to each other.
My house is in the middle of an 80 acre farm and one of the reasons I’m so pleased with that is that if the neighbors are doing something I don’t want to look at, or I’m doing something they don’t want to look at – we don’t have to look at it. But that isn’t going to work for everybody; or even for most people.
What we tend to have around here are road associations, on the private roads down to the lake. But those are generally mostly just about road maintenance, and don’t cover anything else; though some of them have commercial use restrictions, leading to modern arguments about whether Air B&B is a commercial use.
Ah. That would make a whole lot of sense. Zoning is your defense against winding up with Big Box in that nice open field across from your house; and also against a lot of lesser intrusions that really do affect lives. If there’s no zoning, I can see why people would feel the need for other defenses.
However, badly written zoning can be, and often is, a problem. And badly written HOA’s seem likely to be even more common than badly written zoning. There are oversights on zoning that may not exist for HOA’s.
When the property is one’s home, they’re not always easily distinguishable. What about my freedom to sit on my front porch without listening to your power tools making noise all day?
(I don’t actually mind my neighbors’ power tools a bit. But it helps that the nearest house is over 750’ away from mine.)
Yeah. I organize the off-season meetings for a small farmers’ market. Even talking about maybe 15 or 20 households, there’s no way to get a date that suits everybody.
And yes, some people just won’t show up; even if they’ll show up for the actual market.
Is there any zoning? Any junkyard law?
Around here both those issues would be covered by the town or village (though it might take quite a while to get the issue settled, and if the property’s had horses since before the area had zoning they may be able to continue to have horses legally.) But I know that’s not true everywhere.
– if the horse died in the basement due to mistreatment, that may be covered by animal cruelty laws. But, depending on the basement, it might be no different to the horses than keeping them in a barn.
You can’t burn leaves in NYState. State law.
That is often the case?
That’s either a major screwup, or a deliberate attempt to hand power to a minimum number of people.
Our farmers’ market bylaws – written in the 1970’s – require a meeting, two week’s notice of the meeting and of the intended change(s) to the bylaws, and a two-thirds vote of members present at the meeting. It seems that something like that should be standard.
Ideally ask several, in case the first person you ask is part of the problem.
HOA or no HOA – always if at all possible talk to the neighbors before you buy. While there’s no guarantee that a problem won’t move in later, you can save yourself a lot of potential trouble by not buying next door to a problem that was well entrenched before you got there; whether or not a HOA is involved.
I’m reminded of a guy in my area who had a front yard full of old lawn mowers. He was in the news for quite a while as neighbors tried to get him to clean up his property. He claimed it was a legit collection of vintage mowers. I see they are finally gone but here is the Google Streetview from 2015.