I see your point but if you are going to use the “hardball approach” you really don’t need a therapist involved, you just need a court order and a clean up crew. The therapists aren’t there to enforce anything, that’s not what their skills are. The whole point of bringing in a therapist is that we recognize this person is not thinking rationally, right? If they were then of course they would realize it’s better to throw out a plastic cup if it will help you get your kids back. If you are going to bring in the therapist let them do their job with the best chance of success.
For many of these people the show is one last-ditch effort to take care of the problem voluntarily. If it doesn’t work many of them will be forced into even more desperate situations. Next week there is a man looking at jail time if he can’t get things cleaned up (I think they said he did a few days already). Even if the therapists could force them to throw stuff out, it won’t make them well. Like we saw with Patty, the house got cleaned up but the underlying problem wasn’t solved so she didn’t get her kids back.
You do sometimes see people making some progress the first day or two, then getting overwhelmed by the pressure. Clearly these people have serious issues and you usually aren’t going to see an overnight improvement. Even a few weeks with a therapist prior to the crew arriving won’t bring magical results but it seems to me they could help prepare these people a bit better. But I am not a licensed therapist, or even much of a caring nurturer. I just watch them on TV.
It wasn’t clear from the show if Bill owned the house or Lorelei did or if they both owned it or what. Even if the family wants to take the hardball approach they may not have any legal rights to dispose of the stuff, even in situations where the kids are taken away or court action has been threatened. It’s easy to say go ahead and throw it all out, the person will be better off and thank you later but looking at some of the ways these people react I really can’t blame the families. These hoarders have problems bigger than they can be expected to know how to handle.
It’s not necessarily that the “soft” approach didn’t work, it’s that these people need professional help that the average person is not equipped to provide. I just think it’s a shame that when they finally bring someone in who can provide that help, they are having to deal with the camera and clean up crews at the same time instead of being able to just devote some time to getting control of their thoughts and emotions.
It’s a fascinating show, but yeah…I get so angry when I’m watching it. None of my relatives is going to have a chance to let things get that bad before I come in with a shovel and a bunch of garbage bags. Yes, Grandma, I’m lookin’ at you!
My idea? Bring in some kind of large container or mark off a certain space and tell the person they can keep wahtever will fit in it and the rest goes.
The cases where people are doing it to avoid eviction or from court orders are hopeless. They still don’t see that there’s a problem. Once the place is cleaned up and the cleaners are gone, they’ll go right back to the same behavior unless/until another clean up is mandated. The old food-hoarding lady is a perfect case. She would not have thrown out any of the stuff because she thought it was still good. In fact, when her son laid down the word that this stuff was gonna GO, it became a persecution rant on her part. She would go right back to hoarding. But she might be more discreet, if that’s possible.
I agree with that system. It’s similar to the method Clean Sweep uses, and most participants in that show eventually realize that you can’t fit twenty pounds of potatoes in a ten-pound bag and so give up some of their stuff.
That said, I wonder if TLC’s Clean Sweep and A&E’s Hoarders have fundamentally different participants, or if the shows just reflect two different approaches to the same problem. Some people on Clean Sweep seem to be hoarders: their houses start off stuffed from floor to rafters with nothing but goat trails left between piles of crap. But that show takes a much more upbeat approach, insisting that these problems can be solved with cheerful hard work and minimal counseling.
Obviously, both shows are directed and edited to create a particular image. But are the participants on Clean Sweep not true hoarders, or (and I hesitate to say this, because I’m not a psychologist) can the clinical approach of the counselors on Hoarders actually be making the problem worse? Would Clean Sweep’s tough love approach work better with some of the people we’ve seen so far on Hoarders? Or is Clean Sweep just catching people before they reach the more serious Hoarders stage?
I personally think that some participants, such as Kerrylea (the woman with two houses) and Bill (construction supplies man), could be helped with tough love. They were controlling types who took advantage of people who walked on eggshells around them. I think that confronting them and saying, “listen, we all know you have to get rid of 90% of this stuff, so let’s get to it” would have been far more productive than asking, “please consider throwing out this one box, but you don’t have to if you don’t want to.”
I’m not sure, though. Even with the more gentle approach, Bill still got mad and walked off the program halfway through. I think a tougher approach would have just meant that he quit earlier. I think that’s the problem with a lot of these people – they are so deeply attached to their stuff and their hoarding that the “tough love” approach is going to backfire by either 1) making them completely give up early on, or 2) immediately backslide into the same problems even if their house gets cleaned once.
I do like the approach of that one male counselor, who points out things like, “OK, this is the music and dining room. And how much music and dining goes on here?” or, “I hear you saying that you are saving these things to make a better home for your family. How is that working?”
I did read somewhere that there is no proven effective clinical treatment for hoarding, so I think it’s an uphill battle with these people.
I’ve seen a fair number of Clean Sweep episodes - typically I’d just call them “slobs with too much stuff”. I don’t remember any episodes with mouse poop or impending evictions/Child Protective Services interventions, etc., but maybe that’s too much of a downer for such a high-energy show. Maybe they’re level 1 or 2 hoarders (to use a scale I’d seen on a hoarder recovery site, meaning no filth) who are accepting enough to say “sure, we can throw stuff out - we need help organizing too!” Most of the people I’ve seen on Hoarders have thought they should keep almost all their stuff, or all of it.
Good catch on Patty only talking about her daughter - I had wondered about that during the show and then forgot about it. I couldn’t figure out if for some reason they had to cut references to the son (maybe there was something about his health or whatever when he was removed from the home and the producers were concerned about court-related matters or something), or if she was just focused only on her daughter. Wild speculation might include that if she was feeling distant from her husband, her son might remind her of him.
Man, Bill is still bothering me. I’m probably projecting because I fell on ice in our driveway almost two years ago, and my husband was panicked enough that he wouldn’t even let me near that part of the driveway (under the eaves, water had been coming down off that corner in a thaw-freeze cycle), regardless of whether he’d thrown down salt that day, and typically he’d pull the car out to where I could get in from the grass without even stepping onto the driveway at all. This is what leads me to think that Bill is really mentally ill with this problem, that it took not that but an ultimatum of him having to move out to go on the show, and then her heart attack to try cleaning again.
Well, in a few cases, they have been facing eviction, and the one couple had their children removed from the home, so…yes.
But in general, merely having a house full of stuff isn’t illegal, especially if you own the home, and (like in the case of many hoarders,) it’s not actual filth. That’s when you get into issues with people’s health, like the couple that had kids removed. There were old food containers, rotting food in the fridger, and vermin in the house.
The food hoarder woman was even worse, but it’s not like she had kids to be taken away, but she was about to get evicted.
I do think they are completely different participants. Most of the people on shows like Clean Sweep or How Clean is your House? are pretty much sane at bottom, or have minor psych problems at best. (OK, except for the Bird Woman who let her birds poop all over the house.) I think true hoarders, the ones at this level, don’t volunteer to come on “clean me up!” shows where you have to apply. Some reasons people might be living in awful conditions–
They got sick, got behind and got overwhelmed–depression may be a cause or result
Never learned how to clean or that you can’t put 20 cubic feet of stuff into 5 cubic feet of space–need lessons and a reality check
Felt above housework for years, need to realize that everyone has to clean
Never figured out how to fit cleaning into a busy life, got overwhelmed
Sheer laziness!
I am a sorta cluttery person myself, and I live in fear of eventually turning into a Kim and Aggie case. At the same time, I like cleanliness–things just get out of control so easily! I like to throw things away. I can usually see how the Clean Sweep families got into their situations, though I’ve never gotten that bad. But I cannot understand the Hoarders people at all. They are just on a whole different level and are clearly quite ill.
I have rarely been affected more by a TV show. It got me to take a very hard look at the stuff that I’ve hung onto because it might be useful or I could possibly sell it on eBay. It got me to look at my own weak rationales for saving good, useful, possibly valuable items that I will never never, ever use or need, and that just take up space and make more clutter. I’m also making a vow to stay out of Goodwill for at least a year.
Paul - had the cops called on him by two neighbors who were disgusted by the giant, literal junkyard in his yard. He went to jail for a short time because of his inability to clean up, and is now facing much more jail time.
Missy and Alex - hoarder mom and her 7-year-old hoarder son who also has ADHD. The hoarded stuff messes with his ability to have routines, which he needs, but he also panics if you try to take his stuff.
Paul claims that his concern about all the scrap metal (in the form of 17 cars, a school bus, and tons of other stuff) is because he wanted to sell it and give the money to his grandkids. If that really was the case, he probably should have been selling it off bit by bit, and you can see that’s true - he throws a tantrum over what amounts to $3 worth of aluminum cans, he frets over a plastic bin in the dumpster.
For Missy, I was happy at her realization that this work was really important, and that her son needed help. Alex - I’m shocked at how well the cleaning worked for him, and am very glad that he is still getting therapy. I suspect it was the need for order from his other issues that meant he felt good on seeing a tidied-up room. If he was a “plain” hoarder and/or not getting therapy, I bet we would have seen a meltdown.
Just now got around to watching the most recent episode. Some of the scenes with the 7-year-old made me feel very uncomfortable. I’m not sure whether it was because he was exhibiting somewhat age-inappropriate behavior for a 7-year-old, or whether it was just hard to see a child get videotaped in a situation like this, or what. I will say that my own 7-year-old has the same thing about wanting to save the boxes that toys originally came in. (Usually we throw them away anyway, with Lego creations being the occasional exception.)
I liked the organizer guy that was working with Paul. He seemed a bit more no-nonsense than some of the other, more touchy-feely, people have. I have to say, $3000 for the amount of crap they cleared out of there seems pretty good to me.
Missy and Alex left me feeling optimistic for them–the last few episodes I’ve seen, it didn’t seem like the participants were any better off after the show.
I must say, having it re-run on Saturdays is fabulous. It really gears me up to work on our crowded house. Had a great time in the back bedroom today, asking myself if I were an impartial observer, would I be annoyed by my need to hang on to things “just because”. I decided I would be annoyed by me, and so into the recycling they’re going. It’s a really good feeling to clear out crap so you can appreciate the the stuff that does really matter. And not lose it amid the crap that doesn’t.
I keep missing the show, but remain fascinated with the topic! I guess it must be pretty widespread, because everybody seems to know somebody with this problem. My grandmother’s neighbor is definitely a hoarder. Possibly one of my aunts is as well, but I can’t say for sure, not having been to her house in years.
Within the last two weeks, I’ve seen two different vehicles absolutely packed with crap from floor to ceiling. I don’t know how the people fit in the driver’s seat, let alone see out of the windows. Both were filled with possessions, but it was obviously not a case of someone moving, because there was also garbage like fast food wrappers mixed in. One of the vehicles I saw was parked outside Goodwill. I wondered if the owner was inside, finding treasure…
I’m pretty sure my next door neighbors are hoarders. I’ve only seen their garage door open once in 7 years, and it was packed to the ceiling with boxes. They also have an old car in their back yard! Maybe it’s a classic or something, but it’s sitting on flats and looks rusty. (I’ve peeked through the fence!)
They drive newish cars and have a lawn guy take care of their front yard. I’m not sure about the back. I should look more closely. Seems like it’s mostly a dirt yard, from my glances at the old car.
I tell ya, this is the BEST show to watch when doing your own housecleaning. Everytime I put on this show, byt the time it’s done I have 1 or 2 trashbags fulls of stuff that I…just…don’t…need.
I actually kind of related to Bill, because on numerous occasions I have ripped articles out of magazines that had been sitting around forever. A couple years ago I actually picked up a pile of old Maxim & FHM magazines that a neighbor was throwing out. From 2001. In 2005. And come 2009 and I #1 still had them and #2 hadn’t even begun reading (yes, READING) them. I finally decided to not even skim through them, and just went out-of-sight, out-of-mind with them.
I missed the kitty episode. I’m not sure if I want to see it, or should just avoid it. The thought of 100 kitties sounds cute, but the thought of 100 dead kitties sounds…horrible.
I’d say you could probably skip that one. Quite a few of them were ill with something and IIRC they told the hoarder that those cats had to be put to sleep. She reluctantly allowed that but still wanted to keep tons of cats from the healthier bunch. There were a number of dessicated corpses, I don’t remember anything really gory, but it wasn’t an easy episode.
“With some elbow grease I could sell this vacuum at a yardsale.”
“When was the last time you had a yard sale?”
“Um…I’ve never had one.”
My approach would be to get rid of everything. And when they start flipping out saying they needed all that stuff, say “I will return whatever you can tell me off the top o your head what it is, where it belongs and what you are going to do with it.”
I’m normal when it comes to things and I could tell you everything in my condo that I need and where it belongs.
The show disturbs me and makes me angry too, and I have to remember that other people may not understand why I act the way I do either! It’s partly all the stuff for me, but more about the disorder. I keep wanting to go in and organize what’s there, throw out packing materials, etc., so they could at least see what was there. Even if they kept a lot of it, I’d be Ok with that if it were in neatly labelled clear plastic bins.
But it makes me sad too–especially the guy who clearly has issues who felt like if he threw out his dog’s hair, he’d be hastening his death. Or if he threw out a plastic water bottle his mom gave him, it meant he didn’t love her and was rejecting her.
Even on Clean Sweep they do a little bit of counseling in terms of the item not being equivalent to the memory, and if you really need to be reminded of the memory, take a picture of the item.
Seems like it’s mostly a dirt yard, from my glances at the old car.