Hobbes versus the NRA

Two recent threads have brought up, for me, a simmering tension in conservative philosophy.

In one, started by newchrasher it’s asserted that the experience of New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina proves the necessity ofr gun rights. The logic being that chaos broke out in New Orleans, and many New Orleans citizens have guns, and thus private gun owhership prevents chaos. (Which doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. To me the recent events confirmed what I’ve always stated in gun control debates, namely that a strong police presence is the key to deterring crime, but that’s not what this debate is about.)

The second thread in question is the one entitled Katrina may be a boon to conservatives philosophically. That one started by linking to a column by George Will, in which he cited the works of Thomas Hobbes in discussing the situation in New Orleans. The collapse of organized society, he says, was a precise demonstration of Hobbes’ concept of “The War of all Against All”, and confirms Hobbes’ response of calling in a strong leader who uses overwhelming force to maintain law and order.

Of course the law and order streak has always run deep in conservative thought. Hobbes, on the other hand, has not. If we’d polled conservatives for their favorite philosophers a month ago, he probably wouldn’t have cracked the top ten. But after Katrina he seems to be enjoying a resurgence, and somewhat fewer people would now identify him as a stuffed tiger in a comic strip.

Hobbes’ master work, Leviathan, amply demonstrates the truth of Mark Twain’s defintion of a classic: a book which everybody praises and nobody reads. But as one of the few who’s slogged to the end of it (though I admit to skimming some parts) I’m qualified to summarize.

Hobbes begins with the state of nature, and an argument about human behavior. Humans have desires: food, water, shelter, physical safety, and so forth. The desires of different people often come into conflict. Violence is the result. Hobbes believed that that the human mind was bound to seek out what it desired and use logic to determine how to achieve those desires, thus making the conflict inevitable. It was impossbile, in his view, for people to simply decide not to fight each other. Conflict breaks out as surely as gravity pulls objects downward.

This is a problem. Humans are happier with peace, security and prosperity, which they can’t get in the state of the nature. To solve the problem, Hobbes calls in the titular Leviathan, a leader of high stature who rules with an iron hand, forcing all subjects to refrain from turning violent.

Hobbes’ greatest emphasis falls on what sort of governing there should be, and there he’s not ambiguous. It should be stern and unforgiving. The ruler’s power must be absolute. Nothing, not even minor individual liberties, can be preserved; everything must fall under the just sway of the ruler. To just about anyobdy living today this would seem extreme, but Hobbes thought it necessary. Let the leader’s authority slip even slightly, and you tumble back to nastiness, brutishness, and shortness.

In particular, he considers and rejects the idea that each individual can simply provide safety for themselves. Hobbes viewed that as absurd. An individual, left to their own devices, cannot be secure that their present and near-future needs will be met, so they must turn to violence. And that, of course, is the exact opposite of the reasoning used to justify gun rights. So we have a contradiction.

Okay, but where does Calvin weigh in?

When Hobbes was writing (early – mid 1600’s), I don’t think that our ideas of leftist or conservative thought would make much sense. While Hobbes’ idea of a social contract to escape the brutal state of nature is a beginning of liberal thought, it is really only just a beginning.

From Hobbes’ perspective, the authoritarian regime could be either of the left or right (and then, of course, we must define those terms in light of current political thought and practice) as long as it kept order.

It would seem to follow from Hobbes perspective, that to the degree that the State could ensure our security, it had a right to take away our means to self defense.

It seems better to run such a philosophic discussion through Locke, or even through the political philosophy of the Founders (I don’t want to hijack your thread, but if you want to start a new one that topic, I would gladly join and could offer/learn a great deal)

On the issue of gun control, as in other law, the very dividing lines marking left and right, liberal and conservative, etc., all break down.

For example, it seems now a “conservative” position to limit Congress’s ability to regulate what the states do (the expansive interpretation of the commerce clause, etc.). But such a conservative, right wing position would allow the Oregon euthanasia law and the California medical marijuana law. Who would have imagined that the much reviled on the left Rehnquist voted in favor of allowing California’s law to stand, while his “liberal” colleagues voted against it.

Regarding guns: in general, conservatives don’t like the state to take stands on what people can do or not do unless is had clearly moral (read traditional Judeo-Christian biblically oriented) ramifications.

The evidence really is divided on the effect of gun control, so conservatives say that the government ought stay out. Many liberals I know really just hate guns; they think they are destructive and can’t imagine the state allowing people to own them.

Conservatives don’t look for guidance from Hobbes (I am a “neo-conservative, and I certainly don’t). Philosophically, I look for guidance from the Jefferson, Lincoln, et al. as well as many modern thinkers.

I think Calvin was more interested in Theocracy then gun control.

But that would be dodging the OP’s point: that there is tension between conservatives looking to Locke et al. and those looking to Hobbes.

But the OP provides you with an example of a conservative (George Will) who does look to Hobbes even though you personally do not. I think it’s interesting to consider the “strong leader” strain of conservative thought as opposed to the “individual liberties” strain of conservative thought and see how people resolve that tension.

Case in point: although conservative, should George W. Bush be provided with so much power over the lives of individuals? (i.e. the ability to designate people “enemy combatants” and detain them indefinitely, or the power to prosecute a war without a declaration of war from Congress, or the power to use federal executive branch funding to contract to specific groups for social/religious reasons - I’m not bringing these up to hijack the thread, since each is a separate debate in and of itself, but as examples of American government falling into a “strong leader” Hobbes-like model rather than the Lockean philosophy it is usually analyzed through.)

George Will was referring to the unique situation when social order breaks down, when the liberal state has, for the moment, disappeared. “Lord of the Flies” is an extended meditation on that theme.

In such an occurence, it probably would be for the best of all that a strong leader step forth, quell the violence, organize relief. When the crisis had passed, the liberal state should reemerge. Martial law is an example of the reversion to the Hobbesian idea, but witness how difficult it is legally for anything like martial law to be declared over a widespread area.