http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/09/20/2009-09-20_hofstra_5_have_no_reason_to_whine.html
:rolleyes: Can we say blame the victim much? This is the kind of attitude towards sex that I absolutely abhor. What is with the “troubled” young woman? I get that most women aren’t into group sex in bathrooms. But why do we assume that anyone who deviates from the norm is troubled and needs help? I just think this is the most patronizing attitude ever.
So, was she victimized by someone or not? This is a very confusing post.
No, when I said victim, I was referring to the guys who were falsely accused. Even though there is no rape victim, a lot of people (like that writer) are saying things like, “No nice/honorable guy would have group sex with a woman in a bathroom” and “They didn’t rape her but they DID tape her without her consent.” It’s like even though there was no rape, people still want to believe that the guys did something wrong.
“My name is forever tarnished,” said 19-year-old Stalin Felipe.
Hitler OJ Simpson Pol Pot Czolgosz agrees.
Thanks - that makes sense now.
That guy probably goes through life telling everyone, “It’s pronounced ‘Sta-LEEN.’”
Removing the racial element, we just can’t seem to get past the Scottsboro Boys. At the foundation, it’s the same old story - some guys’ lives ruined because crying “rape” is easy to do if you regret your actions later.
People love saying that, but do you or anyone you know apply this double standard in your judgment of people?
Not that it’s particularly relevant. This whole case isn’t particularly about slutdom or studliness, but about personal responsibility. If she’s having trouble facing her boyfriend/parents and accepting the fact that she got it on with five guys at once, well, that’s her fucking problem (no pun intended); she made the choice, and she had a chance to own up to the consequences, but instead of enduring the scorn of friends and family, she chose to pass the “blame” for the whole event onto those guys and potentially put them in jail for decades.
About the whole “sluts vs. studs” thing. Chuck Klosterman wrote: “I hear people making this specific point more often than I hear anyone calling anyone else a slut or a stud.”
I’ve used this example before on the SDMB, but –
He screwed every cheerleader in school.
She banged the entire football team.
Despite advancements in gender equality and openness about sexuality, taken alone I see one of those situations provoking grins, awe and congrats while the other is synonymous with ‘used goods.’
Not that I think this is exactly in line with the OP, but in a way many of these issues are part of the same group of sexual hang-ups – guys being taught they’ve got to beg or bully women into sex and women taught the same. Orgy aside, if she made it all up it sounds like she had major issues. It’s odd that the info about the video (ew) made her recant – you’d think if she were trying to save face, it would be because she knew there was a video that would be passed around.
Well, so far what I’m seeing is that a woman who does that is disturbed because no woman in her right mind would. I just see that as another example of any time a woman doesn’t have normal sex in a relationship, people see her as either someone who’s “confused” or “troubled” or “doesn’t know any better.” Like she’s a wayward child. But a guy who has sex like that is some kind of predator.
I’ve never really encountered the “Woman who has sex with that many people = slut while guy = stud” thing either. To be fair, I’ve never met anyone who had THAT much sex. Actually I dated a guy who’d had a pretty high number of partners and a lot of my friends just thought he was kind of creepy. I think my thoughts would be “Ew” if I found out that someone had some abnormal number of sex partners because…diseases! Not because it’s a guy/girl thing.
Where?
(There’s a bit of difference between “see” and “imagine.”)
I guess it’s too late for two test SDMB threads, huh? I have observed it to a lesser degree. No high school sports involved, just guys with long track records and women with them. One has been met with jealousy (from guys) and fascination (‘What does he have?’ from girls), the other with caution or boredom (mostly from guys, ‘She’s been with everyone, you’re no one special’).
FreudianSlit - It’s a difficult situation because clearly she is screwed up if she lied about the entire thing. I understand what you mean, that people want to convince themselves and others that she couldn’t have possibly consented because what women would, but it’s hard not to jump to conclusions after the fact (and with such a lack of information).
But couldn’t you also argue that she’s just calculating and/or malicious? I mean, the kind of person who thinks that lying about rape because they don’t want to admit to cheating on their SO just seems extremely callous to me.
I mean, no healthy man would rape a woman either, but we don’t go around saying that men who do so are “troubled.” We pretty much say that they’re criminals and predators and bad human beings. If rape is one of the worst things you can do to someone, why isn’t falsely accusing someone of that crime equally reprehensible?
FWIW I read the “troubled” bit as meaning, “Upon some investigation, it turns out that she’d had (possibly unrelated) problems before this.” I could be totally wrong about that; it’s just how I read it.
I wouldn’t count on the media—which is often more about entertainment than journalism—to give an objective, unbiased treatment of a woman who has sex with multiple guys in a bathroom. A lot of programming seems to be just setting up easy targets so the peanut gallery can tsk tsk and feel morally superior.
I don’t think either that they represent all views on attitudes about sex. You’re not going to hear many people come forward on network news saying they approve of her having multiple guys, that they’d like to do it too, or that they’d done it and loved it. I don’t know the percentages in each group, but you know some are out there and everybody has a fantasy or two. Being young, possibly under some chemical influence (the cops had to break up a big party IIRC), maybe she decided to try it and figured nobody would find out.
As for the videotaping, maybe I’m behind on the news but has anybody established whether she knew she was being videoed? Cat Fight wrote:
It’s odd that the info about the video (ew) made her recant – you’d think if she were trying to save face, it would be because she knew there was a video that would be passed around.
Hey, some people video sex as part of the kinkiness. IANAL but consenting adults can do that, it seems—distributing it might be a totally different thing. If she knew they had it on video, how stupid would she have to be to accuse them of rape? My WAG is that the guys thought it would be a great trophy.
I think the reason we believe she didn’t know is because otherwise she would have made her story a lot more convincing. She said there was screaming and that she was tied up with ropes–the tape has shown no screaming and no ropes.
Something we all should understand… this situation happens alot in college. The only difference here is that she wasn’t able to clean up before her boyfriend caught up with her. Had she been able to clean up and take a shower, there would be no story.
Clean up?
I’m wondering how he knew she had had sex?
He stated in an interview that he was waiting for her when she showed up barefooted carrying her shoes. Knowing that this isn’t something she would do normally, he began to ask her questions, where she ‘casually’ mentioned that she was raped. At first, she played it off like it was no big deal but he insisted that she report it to the authorites.