Hollywood +atheist=simply awfull

Cafe Society
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Well, I used the search terms hollywood +atheist under Search this Forum in both *In My Humble Opinion * and here, with no topic found, so I guess this will actually be the first thread on hollywood depictions of atheists, should people post to it. Hold on; let me check the pit, first. Ok, no such thing. I suppose this will be a rare thread not covering a topic mentioned before, outside of individual movies.

Where was I? Oh yeah. I hated the movie named Signs. Bleh. I am sure many here recall it, for when I was a guest; I went back into the archive, in skips and leaps, to find the time period it was released, to see reactions. Simply awful. The guys wife dies, (not that that isn’t a good reason for atheist, should you be raised under the whole simplistic “God is all powerful, and all caring, but he won’t bring your dog back,” kinda fashion.) Memories of that were brought back, when I read the following.

Now, I ask all those who care to contribute, which films contain depictions of atheists, which appears to have no relation to reality? Also, is there more than one kind, or is it just angry that god killed their hamster/dog/husband/turned my wife into a pillar of salt? Come to think of it, are there any straw-women of atheists depicted in films/plays/television/mass market novels?

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The protagonist in Signs wasn’t an atheist, he was a minister with doubts and baggage.

I seem to recall that the series Touched By An Angel had straw women atheists who were even athier* than than the males given similar roles, but I could be wrong. I only watched that show on a hit or miss basis when my weekend plans weren’t fun enough.

Congrats on an OP that makes some sense, btw. You’ve been pretty hard to follow at times.
*:wink:

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Good topic.

Bethany in Dogma was the same - bitter and faithless because she couldn’t have children and was left by her husband as a result. Offhand I can’t think of any movie atheists/agnostics that aren’t like that, and of course by comparison I don’t know anyone in real life who is. When you do see an atheist in a movie, usually it’s someone who has no faith in spite of the evidence, which will become overwhelming by the end of the movie. This is an enormous cheat and it’s mildly insulting, since taken in film after film it implies atheists are stubborn dopes who won’t accept the truth when it’s staring them in the face. I should be disappointed but I guess I know not to expect any nuance in major movies on a topic like this. Stupid, though.

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It’s hard to really come up with even-handed portrayals of atheists because a character’s religion or lack of religion will only come up in a movie that has something to do with it. In some ways you could say that the majority of characters in Hollywood are atheist, if only by the complete lack of religion in the film.
Also, an atheist who was always an atheist and will always be an atheist is usually not a very interesting character, just as a Jewish character isn’t particularly fascinating. An atheist or a Jewish character who has become religious/not-religious is an easy way to show that this character is Deep[sup]TM[/sup].
Did any of that make sense?

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The most positive atheist I can remember from the movies is Ellie (Jodie Foster) in Contact; no surprise given that she was conceived by Carl Sagan. Ellie also suffered a loss in her life, but no connection was made between that loss and her lack of belief in god.

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Hollywood still can’t distinguish between an atheist and a disillusioned Christian.
I’m having a terrible time thinking of any fictional portrayals of atheists on TV or in movies. Disillusioned Christians, like Bethany in Dogma, yes, but actual atheists? The closest I can recall would be Ellie in Contact whom I think described herself as an agnostic (and even then I may be confusing movie with book). I’m told Judging Amy and House have atheist lead characters but have seen neither.

Hmmm … I vaguely recall Inherit the Wind being atheist friendly, but don’t reall whether any of the characters were openly described as being atheist.

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James T. Kirk is the athiest atheist ever!

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But she became a non-atheist at the end, which ruined the movie for me. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Bebe Neuwirth’s character, Tracey Kibre, is an atheist in Law and Order: Trial by Jury, but she’s…Bebe Neuwirth.

Joan of Arcadia suffers from the same affliction others are mentioning–Characters aren’t really atheists so much as “angry at God.”

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In Mary Queen of Scots either ames Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell (Nigel Davenport) or James Stewart (Patrick McGoohan) is described as an “atheist”, and dengerous thereby. The issue comes up because it’s political, not as a religious issue (who do you support – the Catholic Mary or the Protestant Elizabeth?), and the character isn’t shown as becoming an atheist because of bitterness.

And get those thoughts of Monty Python out of your lowbrow heads now.

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Last week I praised The Awakening Land as one of the Best TV Miniseries Ever. It’s about a frontier family when Ohio was the frontier. The patriarch, a lawyer named Portius Wheeler (played by Hal Holbrook), is slightly embarassing to his family and the community because he is a Freethinker (and intimidating because he is also by far the best educated). It’s a positive portrayal (his character is neither saintly nor bastardly).

Jimmy Stewart’s character in Shenandoah was either an atheist or an agnostic, though he attends church because his late wife compelled him to do so for their children. At one point it’s his turn to say the blessing at the table:

Of course the Left Behind movies resemble the books in that the atheist characters act and think like somebody who has never known an atheist and is immersed in conservative religion themselves would seem to think an atheist acts and behaves.

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Hornbeck seems skeptical of religion - or at least he can’t stand religious blowhards like Brady and the ignorant townsfolk. He is surprised and, it seems, disappointed to discover that Drummond is “more religious than [Brady] is,” but I don’t remember anything that speaks conclusively to his religious beliefs. I suppose it’s atheist-friendly, but in the end it’s Hornbeck, as a cynic, who’s kind of left out and disappointed.

This would work if movies showed people moving in more than one direction. But it always turns out the same way.

But you can find characters who are Jewish without it being a major plot point. It might be a better analogy to say “you can find characters who start off Jewish and don’t end up converting to Protestantism.” You don’t find that with atheists in movies. There are just bitter people, most of whom will have the scales removed from their eyes in 90 minutes. You could certainly make an interesting movie about someone becoming an atheist for other reasons, or heck, you could explore the spiritual life of an atheist or show them interacting with a world of people who - if Hollywood is any judge - apparently think they’re angry, dried-up idiots.

I don’t think it’s about depth, I think it’s mostly pandering, with a little bit of reinforcing prejudices thrown in.

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I don’t recall that happening. I do remember that she remained skeptical of her own experiences but realised that self-revelation is not falsifiable. That is a problem with the movie, the book has her as part of a group and the issue is moot.

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Nice stuff, guys.:slight_smile: Thank you. Now, about Contact, as I recall from the book, Ellie was a definite agnostic, while it was much more loosely designed in the movie. IU believe that Sagan added the fact of a dead parent, because he was hoping to be able to make a movie of it, and a character who is agnostic for a non-stereotypical reason would have blastified the minds of viewers.

Oh, and about Signs, well, I think the following from The Editing Room, which gives away the ending, tells the tale. [spoiler]MEL notices JOAQUIN PHEONIX standing next to a BASEBALL
BAT.
MEL GIBSON
I have noticed the baseball bat on the wall independently of my wife’s premonitions, but seeing it has triggered my memory of her last words, which gives me the idea to tell Joaquin to use it. If not for my wife, I’d never have thought to use this bat, so really the stupid flashbacks throughout the film exist for a very good reason. Yes.

JOAQUIN bashes the IMP FROM DOOM with a baseball bat. Then
they realize that water can kill the IMP .

MEL GIBSON (CONT’D)
Water! This is why my prattling daughter leaves water all over the place! And my son has athsma so that he can survive the alien attacks! Truly, everything DOES happen for a reason!

They attack the IMP with water.

IMP FROM DOOM
Ahhh! Water! The only thing that can destroy my species! Jesus, it was pretty fucking stupid to invade this planet, considering it’s 75% water and its inhabitants are mostly water as well.
(dies)

MEL GIBSON
Truly these occurrences have showed me that there is a higher power. Granted, tons of people died and they were not given the same sort of special treatment I was, but what’s important is my obnoxious children are alive.

AUDIENCE: What? That’s it? Where’s the big, farfetched surprise ending?

            DIRECTOR M. NIGHT SHYAMALAN
        Surprise! There is a God!
                      END[/spoiler]

Copyright 2002 - 2005 Rod Hilton. All Rights Reserved. This document may be reproduced verbatim (allowing censorship and translation) as long as the author’s name is preserved and this notice is either preserved or referenced.

Also, I just look thought the real script, easily available with google, and found that while he never says he is an atheist, he never actually says he isn’t a christian, just not a reverend , and has taken down the crosses in his house, but I think we are suppose to imply it.

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Marley23 writes:

> . . . Bethany in Dogma . . .

She was still a Catholic. And, what’s more, a devout Catholic, at least in her mind. She continues to attend Mass even though she suspects that most of the people there would despise her if they knew more about her. (They don’t, since she doesn’t talk with them.) She’s divorced (although not by her choice) and works in an abortion clinic, but, bitter as she seems, she remains part of the church.

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Just for the record, just about everyone in Inherit the Wind seems to correlate with a real-life counterpartr, and E.K. Hornbeck’s is obviously journalist and critic H.L. Mencken.

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TV’s okay, right? One of the reasons I’m sticking with House is that the eponymous character is an open atheist. From the episode “Damned If You Do”:

Now, House is bitter as hell, but at least he wasn’t like, “Waaaah, God crippled me!” and he doesn’t get his ass handed to him when he talks about faith with believer. (Which is what infuriated me about Contact, more than anything else. Ellie should have a had a dozen snappy replies to that “Prove that your father loved you” crack.)

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She’s just going through the motions. I don’t think she calls herself devout, and the “where was god?” stuff is certainly angry.

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How about Ray Stantz from Ghostbusters? When asked by Winston if he believed in God, Ray commented “Never met him.”

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I knew I saw it somewhere. A relevant picture, stating under what circumstances it is ok to admit to the possibility of the existence of gods. All credit for the picture should go to Denise Jones (sidhe@3wa.org), for making the picture, and to mattdark for telling me about it.

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Since I can’t see what in that picture, would you care to explain it?