There’s no reason to look at this any different than we would look at a similar situation outside of the professional sports world.
In real life if someone throws trash at you, taunts you et cetera and you get into a fight with that person and beat them up, you WILL get in trouble. You WILL get thrown into jail and possibly further action will be taken against you. The taunting and trash throwing however would be considered as a mitigating factor, it would probably reduce the penalty but it would not absolve you from blame.
Now, if someone throws trash at you, taunts you et cetera and you run towards ANOTHER person who just happens to be near by the person throwing trash and then beat him up, you won’t get any mitigating factors. You should and ought be arrested and convicted of aggravated assault.
Hmm…I really dont have a dog in this fight at all…But why the fuck is Wallace suspended? If his shove to Artest would normally warrant a suspension, then so be it…but I don’t think it would have in any other situation.
Any NBA fans want to correct me, or explain why Wallace deserves the suspension?
His shove would have normally warranted a suspension, that was the first thought I had as I watched the events unfold.
As far as who’s blame for the fracas, well, there is plenty of blame to pass around, there is no sense in trying to lump it all on the players or the fans, all are equally guilty.
But in the long run, somehow, somewhere, somebody, is going to blame it on Clinton.
If you get to watch the replays again, notice that Wallace throws a rolled up towel at Artest while Artest is laying on the table, just before the beer throwing incident.
:: Thinks longingly of the Cousy - Russell - Bird era ::
Oh, yeh, it’s Clinton’s fault, but you got the wrong one – just ask Roseworm, it’s all Hillary’s fault. All part of her Master Plan for 2008[sup]TM[/sup] of course.
At one point, a chair was thrown into the middle of a mini-melee. That was probably the most dangerous thing that happened.
The SportCenter commentators were generally defending the players, on much the same grounds as those in this thread, but since I believe most, if not all, of them are former players, that’s probably to be expected.
At some point, fans came down to the court, and were attacked by players. This was after the serious fighting had broken out, so I assume that those who condemn the players are okay with that, since it was the fans breaking into player territory, and it’s more clearly self-defense, correct?
First of all, I completely agree with **airman ** here. Getting hit in the head or neck with a plastic cup does NOT give Artest the right to go apeshit on a fan who didn’t even throw the cup! He had no idea who threw the cup, and in a blind rage, attacked the first guy who happened to be laughing at him. Now Stephen Jackson could argue that he went into the stands to defend his teammate, but since he also went apeshit on fans, and did not attempt to get Artest out of the stands, I don’t think that defense will fly. Jermaine O’neal did not go into the stands, but he did lay out a fan who was ON THE COURT. The fan deserved it, but O’neal ran across the court and sucker punched him while he was being held by at least 2 security guards. I’d like to see O’neal explain that one to the judge! Lastly, Ben Wallace clearly overreacted to the pointless foul by Artest and then refused to leave the court after his ejection. All 4 players should be suspended with Wallace getting the least and Artest getting the most.
Artest- done for the season and may have to jump through some hoops if he wants to play next year. Criminal charges as well.
Jackson- 40 game suspension at a minimum. Wailing on paying customers is not a real effective marketing promotion. Criminal charges as well.
O’neal- 20-30 game suspension at a minimum. Although he did not enter the stands, clocking a person who is NO threat at all to you is clearly unacceptable. Criminal charges as well.
Wallace- 5-7 game suspension for starting a fight. Note, compared to other previous cases, this is a harsh penalty for starting a fight. I feel he should get more than the standard 1-3 because he wouldn’t leave the court and threw a towel.
Fan who threw the cup- not sure what, but something REALLY FUCKING HARSH. This nimrod incited a riot and knowingly did so!
Fans on the court- also not sure what yet, but WTF are you doing on the court? Throw as big a fucking book that you can find at all the fans misbehaving.
Detroit Security- where the hell were you when Artest was lying on the scorer’s table? He should have not been able to get into the stands that quickly, and the dipshit who threw the cup should have been identified and tackled immediatley.
Anything less than these punishments and the NBA/Stern should be ashamed.
Has any footage come out yet to show who threw the cup?
If Artest went into the crowd and attacked an innocent fan, in my opinion his career should be over.
I don’t see how there can be any excuse for that, and I find it pretty sad that so many people are saying it is “understandable”, if that is indeed the case.
As I posted in the MPSIMS thread, Artest went after the wrong guy. Detroit news shows have been showing clips of the toss - it was a discreet, underhand throw, remarkable when you consider how far and how accurate it was - and the guy Artest jumped was several seats away.
ESPN is now reporting that Jermaine O’neal cold-cocked some guy in the tunnel. Knocked out cold and taken to the hospital along with one other person. So far no one seems to have video of this, but a cop claims to have seen the whole thing. Assuming this to be true, O’neal should be joining his boy Artest as a spectator for the rest of the season. I’m beginning to think Jackson should also be done for the season. Throwing haymakers in the stands and running around the court acting like a gangsta is a joke. Make an example out of these guys and then maybe, the NBA can earn some respect back. One more thing, considering the embarrassing amount of security people at the Palace, the Pistons should either be fined a lot, or forced to play the next game against the Pacers in front of no fans.
Does anyone think the the Pistons should be punished as a team/franchise?
Possible measures could include paying their next ten home matches in an empty stadium, have the stadium stop selling beer to fans, erecting plexiglass screens a la hockey stadiums or withdrawl of TV coverage. Thoughts, comments, creative suggestions?
Plexiglass and lack of beer are out of the question. I don’t think any owner in their right mind would agree to it. Lack of television coverage also won’t happen. They were the defending champs before. Now they are even more newsworthy.
Make them keep playoff level security for the rest of the season. Make them keep the first one or two rows of courtside seats empty; maybe not for the season but for quite a few games. Fine 'em a few million on top.
I don’t know as I’d go too far on the franchise though. This is kind of something you can’t plan for.