Holy balls almighty (Pistons-Pacers riot)

I haven’t watched the NBA since Gary Payton´s (I think) moment of glory, which coincided with what I felt was a horrendous regression in the leage that seems to be ongoing. IMHO these guys, whoever they are, should never, ever be allowed to play professional basketball again. They are a disgrace not only to the league and your nation but to the world of organized sports.

Once again I find myself stunned at your view of violence - you people really think it’s O.K. for a professional sportsman to run kicking and screaming into the stands to mercilessly beat up people who migh have thrown beer at him? The fans who effectively pay their wages?

Did you even check these sites out? Your riots/disasters are almost invariably accidents and stampedes and please note the complete absence of players in every single one. The Salvador - Honduras war was a foregone conclusion long before ‘that game’.

Incidently, you are talking about (among other incidents):

1946 Bolton, England

1964 Lima, Peru

1982 Moscow, The Soviet Union

1988 Kathmandu, Nepal

2004 Detroit, USA

Notice the company you’re in?

Since you linked to that BBC article mentioning Burnden Park (or ‘Burden Park’ as BBC called it), let me make this clearer by comparing these two incidents:

Burnden Park: Disaster strikes when two safety barriers collapse, causing a stampede. The record (I think) 67.000 strong crowd of fans helped those injured as best they could but 33 died and over 400 were injured.

Detroit: Professionals basketball players leave the field of play, entering the stands to beat the living crap* out of fans half their size, since they might have thrown beer at one of them.

What I found troubling, besides the violence, was the fact that no-one seemed to be in much of a hurry to get these fuckers off the fans and into the dressing rooms or, better yet, jail. Security should have intervened much, much sooner.

*It didn’t really look like they packed a good punch, though, I saw one fan punched repeatedly, once with a ‘running punch’ but was still up, as were others. I’m pretty sure Airman could hurt those guys and hurt them bad, for what it’s worth. Incidentally, a footballer punched a danish soldier here (once) a couple of days ago, killing the soldier. I’m not saying punches should be fatal but judging from what I saw in that game and what I’ve seen in normal brawls, these gentlemen really aren’t such tough customers.

How many fans do these arenas seat? Is there any security at all?

If Luis Figo were to attack, say, Ronaldinho at the Nou Camp before turning on the fans and beat some silly, he wouldn’t just be charged with inciting a riot - he’d be hung for crimes against humanity. Not that the Nou Camp crowd wouldn’t tear him apart if he could even get near them, which he can’t.

from here

I’m getting mighty tired of always seeing the ‘soccer hooligans are worse than us’ argument when talking about violence in sports in the US - football is an honourable game for the most part but is the world’s most popular sport, so there are bound to be problems from time to time. Don’t even try and tarnish football’s good name by comparing it to this joke of a ‘sport’ that is the NBA ‘basketball’.

:stuck_out_tongue: Name me one NBA player who was murdered by a fan after a bad play.

Anyway, the suspensions: 30 games for Artest, 20 for O’Neal and Jackson, five for Wallace.

Lest we get things screwed up, yes, you’re right that it’s unfair to tar an entire sport because of bad fans. But saying “soccer isn’t so bad compared to the NBA” doesn’t work in my opinion.

Kind of a slap on the wrist considering what they did, with the exception of Wallace of course.

Any word on fines or criminal charges yet?

I assume you’re referring to the murder of Andres Escobar in 1994, he was gunned down by Mafia bosses who had bet large sums on the game in which he scored an own goal, sending Columbia out of the World Cup. That’s Columbians for you…

I can’t find cites but I recall a goalkeeper being shot in the back and killed during a friendly in Africa and another goalkeeper who had hid arms hacked off after saving a penalty. Again, this is not in the United States, but if you feel the US has a similar standard of living, security etc. feel free to keep comparing them.

You obviously missed the Jermaine O’Neal punch. The guy was carried out cold on a strecher.

By the way, call me a cynic, but those guys just got a pile of street cred. Watch O’neal and Artest jerseys to fly off the shelves.

The suspensions currently being reported are not accurate according to the NBA. Now that the story regarding O’neal cold cocking a janitor in the tunnel is true, I believe Artest and O’neal are both done for the season with Jackson possibly joining them. I can’t find a link regarding the O’neal story, but I have seen it reported on ESPN several times now. Also, Stern is having a news conference soon so we should not be in the dark too much longer.

Those suspensions are just ‘projected’ at this time. Atrest and Jackson should probably get suspended for the season and the playoffs - or a 12 month ban. For the Pacers to just hang around for half the season and then get their top players back, well rested for a playoff run isn’t enough of a punishment.

Americans also don’t care about soccer, so I doubt a level playing field anywhere. There may not be any murders in Britain, but I don’t think you can explain away all of the differences with the standard of living.

CNN reports Artest is officially suspended for the entire season.

Jackson was suspended for 30 games, O’Neal for 25. Ben Wallace got six games, Anthony Johnson five.

Four other players were handed one game suspensions.

There is some question as to how Indiana will field a team for its next game.

Aw, there are plenty of warm bodies out there.

Interestingly, the Pacers were still nearly able to defeat Orlando despite fielding a six-man skeleton crew. The Magic escaped with an 86-83 victory.

Sorry all, got a little carried away… :o

I’m actually pretty satisfied with the bans; I was sure they’d be much shorter, somehow.

Man those suspensions are a load of shit.

Oh well, I’m riding Miami’s coattails this season anyway.

I bet Artest is happy, he has plenty of time for his rap album. Anyway, he’ll be back because he’s got the skills. Can anyone say Sprewell?

:: Wipes spittle off monitor ::

I’d really rather not.

Don’t worry yourselves about poor Artest. Not only will this give him time to recover from his promotional campaign, but it will likely add to his “street cred.” May even increase his sales.

According to Bob Costas, the suspension may even be reduced on appeal. I really hope it isn’t. This guy needs mental help, not a multi-million dollar contract.

Also, according to the Oakland County Prosecutor there will likely be charges filed against the players involved (Artest, Jackson, and O’Neal) and some of the fans in the stands.

I’m just wondering if the fans in the stands that threw punches after Artest and the gang went up and threw down have a possible defense. I saw the footage about eight thimes this morning on the Today Show :rolleyes: and saw an older gentleman throwing punches at Artest after they hauled him off of the first guy he was mauling. Couldn’t he say he was concerned for his own safety?

Just a thought.

I agree (though it occurs to me that these low lifes would still do it in the hope of trumping up a lawsuit against the security firm, the venue, the league, etc, though at least the players wouldn’t be directly involved).

Now the fucking lawsuits are going to fly.

If something wasn’t broken, you should be a man and suck it up.

There was a sports analyst on NPR this morning (Not “Firestone” but sounded close to it) that made a good point. He said this could almost be expected, given the way NBA teams now introduce their home teams to such sensational fanfare at the beginning of a game, yet barely mention the guest team and, if anything, treat them with disdain.

I think he has a good point. Instead of getting every event off to such a vindictive start, what ever happened to being gregarious, magnamimous hosts, to having respect for your opponent, not to mention the competition itself. If you show disrespect for the character and abilities of your opponent, aren’t you cheapening any win and worsening any loss? Given our pathetic display of effort and sportsmanship in the Olympics, did this latest embarassment really come as a surprise to anyone?

This isn’t true of just the NBA either. Look at the S. Carolina - Clemson high jinks and last week’s NFL altercation, just to mention a paltry few. This crap is in some part emblematic of sports in general in the US and it saddens me greatly. I fully support the suspensions and hope they seriously look at adressing fan misbehavior too, curbing beer sales for a couple of months or whatever it takes. Those in charge of their respective leagues, teams and schools really need to send a message that the current direction is wrong and that a correction is mandatory and they need to do it right now. It’s gotton so ugly that to do otherwise will invite fans to leave in droves, maybe never to return.

No no no no. fuck that.

I’d say Artest is a better punishment for a misbehaving fan, then making it worse for the rest of us.