If I were to bottle the juice of either grapes or beeies, and add sugar, will the fermenting process eventually begin? Or must I add yeast to start the fermenting?
I realize there are detailed instructions all over the web to make wine and such, but I want to do it on a simpler level.
Yes, unless preservatives are added the sugar will eventually be fermented by wild yeasts and other microbes. The results are likely to be erratic and unpalatable though. You may also end up with exploding bottles if too much CO[sub]2[/sub] is produced.
There are better, safer ways to make your own alcohol.
The important phrase in Number’s post is “and other microbes.” When homebrewing, a major step is to put the yeast into a starter a couple days ahead of time, to allow the yeast to reproduce well. This allows the yeast to outcompete other microbes that might find a nice sugary solution very inviting.
Exactly. Depending on the strain of yeast you use the flavour profile will swing wildly from ode de sweaty armpit to banana and burnt butter. Ick.
If you want a simple level buy a 4 week wine kit. It takes next to no effort, the flavour is nice and you get the right yeast. Trust me, dead simple.
I am becoming a mead fan. I am currently on my second batch (but have brewed a couple of dozen batches of beer). It’s simple – honey, yeast, nutrients, water, and 6 months of waiting. Hey, I didn’t say it was fast.
Your yeast is CRUCIAL.
Do not try something that random on a lark. My dad brews his own beer, and makes his own wine. A long time ago, my brother and I accompanied him to the supply store, and saw that you could make home-made root beer. We thought this was super keen, so he got it. I think he was just starting out then, which I suppose excuses the resulting exploding bottles.
Phut. Phut. Pow. Bang! “What the heck is that?” Pow! “Uh oh”.
He usually left them under the bathroom counter to sit, which led to my Mom dragging beer boxes outside, decked out in apron, rubber gloves, and my brother’s toy motorcycle helmet. Dad opened the rest to save his bottles, and even though I thought it tasted really good, he hasn’t made another batch of that yet. Funny that.
So in conclusion… I wouldn’t go with “simple”. Most do-it-yourself kits are easy, and the slightly better ones require only minor investments in extra barrels, tubing, carboys, etc. Check out your local brewing supply store - the info you get there’ll be good, with instant demos.
P.S. - beeies = berries, right? Took me a while to figure that out. I was worried for a minute. 
Beeies make excellent wine; you just have to get a dog to bark and shoot some at you.
Yes, I meant “berries”. Sometimes I just can’t type.
It seems to be the consensus to buy a kit…as I expected. The reason I strated this arose from a conversation I had with my buddy who just got back from Iraq. He was stationed in Kuwait for an extended period of time. In kuwait, alcohol is illegal. He mentioned how he tried to ferment grapes, but to no avail. Well, this got me thinking…could I make alcohol in a position like his?
…where no “kits” are available.
Just yesterday, I examined my experiment again. Just 24 hours from the initial “juicing”, my sealed bottle had developed a thin film on the top. To confirm my suspicion I out the bottle up to my ear and unscrewed the cap. I heard a rush of air escape the bottle! Something’s really happening!! To this point I have added no yeast, just the natural stuff on the berries. I plan on periodically releasing the pressure as not to blow the bottle. If this works, what is the next step?
hehehe - actually a homebreew shop here sells kits in a different form of can, so it is meant to be easily disguised as someparticular foodstuff for the benefit of people who want to take it to the “dry” countries.
But the real question - well - as others have saidk, it will only start without yeast if it has the good luck to meet up with some wild yeast just wandering about. AS said before, this is pretty damn erratic.
If you want to do that jsut as an experiment, you could, but, myself, I’d be a bit sad if the beer or wine I had been tnding and waiting for turned out to be horrible and undrinkable.
Yes, it is just an experiment, and I only invested a small portion of my time preparing it. I also ordered some wine yeast on line, so I am thinking that as soon as that comes in, I will add it to the brew. If I get anything drinkable I will be happy.
One more question. When I do go to taste it, should I be concered about any harmful alcohols or bacteria?
Don’t bother adding yeast later–just save it for the next batch. If fermentation is already happening, then some strain of yeast has already established itself, and adding another starter won’t change things much. As for drinking the result…well, berries shouldn’t be able to produce methanol, so the alcohol shouldn’t be dangerous. I’ve been told that no known pathogenic bacteria can survive in beer (or anything with a similar alcohol percentage), but I can’t confirm it. If it’s alcoholic enough, you’ll probably live through it. Flavor is another matter.
With regard to wild fermentation: As a child, I once became slightly tipsy eating muscadines (wild grapes native to the southern US) that had fermented on the vine. They had a nice, sweet, fruity wine flavor. So good flavors can result from wild fermentation, although nasty flavors are more common.
You mean, aside from the usual?
Alcohol IS harmful. As for bacteria, ever heard of e coli? Mead makers who have used improperly-prepared fruit to flavor their mead have killed people with the stuff they made. What you are doing is dangerous.
Remember, for the yeast, it’s a race to consume as much sugar as possible. Any wild yeasts on the fruit you are using, or on the carboy/jug the fruit will be in, will leap at the fruit’s sugars. If you add wine yeast afterward the initial yeast populations will be large enough that they will crowd them out.
Wait until you get the wine yeast, make a starter and then pitch it in with you mushed up fruit all at once. I’d also say to partially sterilize the fruit to help avoid any other problems. Oh you may want to freeze the fruit ahead of time to rupture cells walls allowign for a more complete fermentation.
Again, wild yeast may continue to convert sugars in high alcohol environments than regular wine yeasts. If you bottle before they finish, your bottles may explode. Glass bombs are no fun, a criminal waste of good alcohol and dangerous.
As for getting higher alcohols, relax, that tends to be a concern for distilled spirits like whiskey and moonshine. The concentrations of the esters increases in that production process to levels where you can be blinded if you don’t know what you are doing. The levels present in wine/beer are safe.
It takes 70% alcohol (i.e., your standard rubbing alcohol) to kill e coli. Standard homebrewing sanitizers (One Step) don’t kill it. Only heat or things that can hurt people can kill e coli.
I’m sounding like kind of an anti-homebrewing prick here, which is funny because last night I racked an ale to secondary, bottled a saison, and made a yeast starter for a stout I’m brewing this weekend. I’ve read up on brewing, vintninc and cider-making and it’s perfectly safe if you’re careful. Opening up a bottle of juice, adding sugar, putting the cap back on and waiting to see what happens is not being careful.
Okay, fine. As to the OP: I have a friend who, back in college, would buy a bottle of pasteurized (no preservatives added) apple cider, take the top off and leave it off over night, then screw it back on loosely so the carbon dioxide could escape. Once it was done fermenting they would drink it. He said it was usually apocalyptically nasty, but very potent. Knock yourself out.
I respect all of you replies and warnings regarding the dangers. I as under the impression the ecoli mainly lives in the intestines of cattle and in sewage. My source of berries is a mulberry tree in my own backyard. We are incorporated and have city sewers (no septic fields or anything), and we have no farms remotely close to us. I realize ecoli is a danger and isn’t something to be taken lightly, but does my current situation seem risky?
How long should a wine ferment for, before it is bottled to age?
Wait until the hydrometer stops dropping. Don’t rely on the lack of bubbles. As for aging, lets just say try it the day you “bottle” it and maybe 3-4 weeks later.
Hydrometer!?! I don’t even have real yeast!
What is the typical fermentation period? A couple of days, weeks? What methods are used to clean up or remove the yeast film that build up in the wine?
Thanks again for all of your help. You guys are great!
Look at the 4 week kit instructions http://www.vineco.on.ca/instructions.htm for a rough idea of fermentation times. You’ll note that the basic way to get rid of the residue is to decant the fermenting wine after a few days and then leave it for a couple of weeks and then decant into bottles.
I noticed you’re occasionally opening the jar’s top to relieve pressure. Dn’t do that. Leave is slightly open to allow the gas to continually escape while your playing at this thing.
Remember the instruction are for fermentation by wine yeast, not the funky wild stuff you likely have. As I said before the fermentation may continue longer than regular wine yeast would, which in turn would lengthen the amount of time needed and increase the chance of a glass bomb.
OK, I’ve made cider with wild yeast from home-pressed apples. As people have said, the flavor can be unpredictable. Mine was usually pretty good. I used to fill up old wine bottles with fresh juice and then put a rubber balloon over the top. The balloon allows CO2 to escape but keeps out acetobacters. Or you could use a $1.00 water valve. Your cider will be still, but you don’t have to worry about explosions.
Wild yeast has been used for centuries. But usually this was at established breweries, cider mills, or wineries, where wild yeast coated everything, and there was no way to keep it out of the mash anyway. So whatever yeast got established was what you got for your brew. But your house is a different matter…you’ve got yeast from your skin, from cheese or old bread or other foods, from under the sink. So you are much less likely to get a good wild strain than if you were in a 100 year old cider mill.
One important thing about pressing your own cider…NEVER use windfall apples. Deer eat apples and apple leaves. Deer poop on the ground around the apple trees. Deer poop contains e. coli. Apples that fall on the ground can touch deer poop. One speck of deer poop in your cider innoculates the whole batch with e. coli. Not good.