The circuit breaker that handles most of my second floor outlets keeps tripping too often (about twice a week). My house was built in the mid 60’s, and I’m sure the builder/electrician obviously never anticipated that we would have so many computers, HDTVs, Blu-Ray players, etc. plugged in on the second floor.
I’ll probably have a licensed electrician do the actual work in the end, but naturally I want to solve the problem as cheaply as possible. Couldn’t I simply have him replace the current breaker with one that will tolerate more amperage? My guess is that we’d only have to bump it up a few amps, and so I don’t think safety would be an issue.
The breaker is set to the amperage that those size wires will carry safely. Increasing the apmerage will overheat those wires, warming up inside the walls, which will eventually burst into flame, and burn your house down.
You don’t want to do that.
Just have the electrician run a couple more circuits up to the second floor, like a specific one for your office computers, and put them onto a new circuit breaker. Much cheaper than replacing the house.
the breakers don’t come in sizes that are a few amps apart, they are sized on wire sizes.
you could have it replaced with one of the size the wire is rated for.
try not running so many things at the same time, see if it stops tripping as frequently. if it keeps tripping then there might be a fault in your wire or the circuit breaker.
you may have to live without so much running at the same time or have the electrician add a circuit to the second floor. frequent circuit breaker tripping is not just a bother, it is a safety issue.
My genuine thanks to you all; you saved me the embarrassment of having the electrician laugh in my face :o
By the way, I actually do not have all those devices running simultaneously. In the most common mode, I have two desktop computers, a window AC, and two LED 60-watt bulbs running at the same time. The next most common situation is that I have a laptop, HDTV, and receiver running. But in either situation, if I go to another room or the bathroom and turn on the light, there’s about a 15-20% chance the breaker will trip! Is that really such an excessive electrical load? Isn’t it at *all *possible that the original electrician screwed up and used too limited a breaker?
Circuit breakers wear out. The spring gets weak and the breaker trips for no apparent reason. I’d suggest replacing the breaker with an identical breaker and see if the problem stops.
I’ve often seen window A/C units in older houses fed by wires running up the outside of the house. Properly installed iaw code of course, but in many cases it’s cheaper than running were inside the walls.
A note of caution, if you’re planning to do this yourself. If it’s a “bolt-in” breaker instead of a plug-in type, leave it to an electrician to change it out. The screw that holds in a bolt-in breaker is screwed into the hot bus bar. If you inadvertently touch the shaft of the screwdriver when loosening the screw, you could get knocked on your ass.
Depending on the size and age of the window AC it will use between 12 to 15 amps. On a 20 amp circuit 80% is 16 amps so you are already close on the safety limit with the AC.
20 amps is 2400 watts. Look at the name plate data on all the devices on the circuit and add it up. If the reading is in amps times that by 120 to get watts. See how close to 2400 watts the upper limit or 1920 watts the 80% load you are at.
The only thing I’d add is to have the electrician make sure that the breaker matches the wiring.
In New England where I’m from, I’m told that for a time the practice for a time was to install a breaker less than the rating of the wiring itself.
In my house, there were 15 amp breakers for 12 gauge wire. That’s fine of course, but 12 gauge wire is rated to be supported by a 20 amp breaker. So I had the breaker changed and I was fine on both the safety issue and on the tripping issue.
The only concern on this is the off chance you have 12 GA at the breaker, 12 GA at the outlet and some knucklehead put 14 GA in between. That’s allowed unfortunately, but not a great situation and would be an issue with a breaker change. In my case, my parents owned the house and I knew my father hadn’t messed with the wiring.
If you are running an AC unit, you are probably out of luck as they draw a lot of amps. But worth a look nonetheless.
[QUOTE=spifflog]
In my house, there were 15 amp breakers for 12 gauge wire. That’s fine of course, but 12 gauge wire is rated to be supported by a 20 amp breaker. So I had the breaker changed and I was fine on both the safety issue and on the tripping issue.
[/QUOTE]
But you still have 15 amp receptacles. You’d need to read the Code to find the ifs and whens, but for the most part, the receptacles and their conections need to match what’s protecting them. Methods that may be OK at 15 amps might become hazards with 33% more current - things like back-stab connections come to mind.
I’ve never seen bolted breakers in homes, but I’m sure they exist somewhere. Even the dreaded FPE breakers are the usual push-on style.
That said, the whole center spine (the bus) and the fat incoming wires of a breaker panel are live and waiting to shock the bejabbers out of anyone who gets near. I’ve installed or changed dozens of breakers in live panels and that still gets me nervous. Probably a good thing - complacency can be dangerous.
My home panel, which is Square D, is bolt-on. Some places require it by local code, and perhaps that’s why. I suppose such a requirement is because it’s a more solid busbar connection than a push-on, and has less chance of arcing. Mostly, it’s a PITA. I change them hot, but then I’m an old, cautious electrician.
I don’t concur with your receptacles and conductions statement.
You’ll be hard pressed to find 20 amp outlets in many home in the US (I can’t state about other counties) and many of those circuits have your normal, run of the mill 15 amp outlets with a 20 amp breaker. Most claim that the parts of the 20 and 15 amp outlets are all the same in any case.
And National Electrical Code does not require a 20 amp outlet with a 20 amp circuit breaker.
[rant mode on]
This is a bit of a personal rant for me, but I HATE back-stab connectors. I refuse to use them and if I had any in my house I would replace them. I personally don’t think they should be allowed.
[rant mode off]
Anyway, with respect to wire and outlets, I personally like to use 12 ga. wire even on 15 amp circuits. It’s not required but it gives you a bit of an extra safety factor. It also costs more.
15 amp and 20 amp outlets are generally identical inside (except of course for the T shaped slot). The NEC allows you to use 15 amp outlets and 12 ga. wire and 20 amp breakers.
If you are using 20 amp outlets, they should be on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. The reason for this is that if you are using a 20 amp outlet, it is expected that you’ll be using it at close to its rated capacity, otherwise you would just be using a 15 amp outlet. And since it is close to capacity, you don’t want to overload it by tying it in with other outlets or fixtures on the same circuit.
[QUOTE=spifflog]
And National Electrical Code does not require a 20 amp outlet with a 20 amp circuit breaker.
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Hang onto your wirenuts, it gets a bit weird, but yes, there is a requirement for 20 amp receptacles on 20 amp circuits.
As it turns out, a “single receptacle” is not what most people think of. The typical receptacle or outlet is actually a duplex receptacle, allowing you to plug in two things. The Code considers this to be two receptacles even though it is one device.
That said, it’s technically (and explicitly) allowed, but among electricians, it can be a religious feud almost as bitter as “Should the ground pin be up or down?”
My preference is on the side of 20 amp receptacles on 20 amp breakers. Grampa’s old 15 amp circuits don’t cut it any more for a lot of common household appliances. Been shopping for vacuum cleaners lately? Some of them brag about 12, 13, even 15 amps of “cleaning power,” whatever that is. Plug that sucker into a circuit that’s already powering the TV and a lamp, and you’ll be in the dark soon. Likewise hair dryers - 1750 watts is their marketing battle cry, and is right about 15 amps again.
