I am renovating my home. I see it as a long term hobby.
Anyway, in one of the rooms the plaster ceiling was hanging on by a thread. This was due to some water damage some years ago. I knew about this, and have decided to replace the whole thing, properly. All it took was a nudge to bring the whole thing down on my head.
So with the ceiling on the floor, I decided that this would be a good time to consider installing recessed lighting in this room.
The wires were run, the recessed lighting was bought, and I’m starting to drywall the ceiling back up. I have the holes cut where the lighting is going to go through (using the template that they provided), with the wires hanging out of them right now. I’m planning on plastering over the drywall to keep the condition of the house as original as possible, since it is a victorian. Please don’t point out that victorians did not have recessed lighting. Here’s the problem.
There is an obvious design defect in the recessed lighting that I bought. Once you wire it up and and push the one piece transformer and housing up through the hole, the instructions say, “secure the housing in place.” That’s it. With what am I supposed to attach it in place with? No brackets, no glue, nowhere to screw it in.
The only think I can think of doing is finding some sort of industrial glue and gluing the part of the metal lip that is on the outside of the hole to the plaster right above it.
So my question is, what type of glue can I use to attach metal to plaster, and can support the weight of about five pounds?
You probably bought the wrong kind of canister. There is a type for new construction, which is what everyone here has referred to, and there is a renovation type, referred to here
The renovation type goes into the hole and 4 metal clips secure it to the drywall.
I got the renovation type of recessed lighting. It has the four clips on the inside of the canister that, in theory, are supposed to slide out and hold it in place, once it is installed. But I look at the setup and I have some doubts.
If you can picture this floating in space, the canister at the bottom is wide, where the light comes out of, and then tapers up to the flat top of the canister. From the top of the canister, jutting out horizontally, is a metal bar about ten inches long. Inside this bar is where the wires travel. At the end of this is the transformer and the hookup for the power input. If I lay the recessed light on a tabletop right side up, it is so top heavy that it falls over. I just don’t see the four clips as being strong enough to keep it upright. I’m open for suggestions.
I’m thinking of prying this metal bar from the recessed light and transformer in order to separate the two parts. I’ll resplice the wires afterward, but atleast then the clips only have to support the canister, and nothing else. Then I’ll attach the transformer to a beam, in some fashion, instead of having it simply resting on the top of the ceiling above my head.
Finagle brought up the drywall…
Now keep in mind, this is a longterm project. I enjoy the learning experience of working on this house. I am basically rebuilding it from the inside out, and have had to scrap projects midway through before because of something stupid I did at the beginning. This doesn’t frustrate me at all. I have plenty of house left to work on, so if something I learn now helps me somewhere farther down the line, all the much the better.
…I’m using regular 1/2 inch drywall. Why 1/2 inch? It happens to be the exact depth of the lathing that was left on the ceiling. The entire ceiling did not need replaced, just most of it. I plan on drywalling in the spots where there is no lathing, and then replastering the entire ceiling. Which leads me to my next question:
Is there an easy way to equally plaster a large area, quickly? Here’s my idea here. I’m planning on buying a disposable paint roller, dip it into the mixed plaster, and just roll the plaster over the existing lathing and drywall that I’m putting up. I’m going to at least try it, but what is everyone’s opinion on this idea?
I honestly did not know what blue board was for. I stood there, in the aisle of Home Depot, staring at the two stacks, looking for the difference. It came down to price, so I bought the regular drywall. Do you feel that putting damp plaster over the regular drywall that I got is going to destroy the whole thing? My thought was that the two would slightly mix together as the plaster seeped into the drywall, and the both of them would harden together. Am I delirious?
Sorry can’t really picture it. But it does sound like a system made for remodel. You say it has a transformer, so it is a low volt system?
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I’m thinking of prying this metal bar from the recessed light and transformer in order to separate the two parts. I’ll resplice the wires afterward, but atleast then the clips only have to support the canister, and nothing else. Then I’ll attach the transformer to a beam, in some fashion, instead of having it simply resting on the top of the ceiling above my head.
Again, don’t know your situation, but have you considered pulling down all the lath and plaster and re-drywall the whole ceiling? It sounds as if you are going to try to match existing texture/lath with drywall and texture. Never worked with lath and plaster myself, but I would consider getting rid of it. Otherwise you have a bunch of patches. The only time I have used blue board is in bathrooms. It has a greater resistance to moisture. I think Finagle is worried about the amount of moisture in the plaster you are thinking about putting up to match the existing ceiling. If you think you can texture it with a roller, you aren’t plastering, you are texturing (hope that makes sence).
[quote]
Is there an easy way to equally plaster a large area, quickly? Here’s my idea here. I’m planning on buying a disposable paint roller, dip it into the mixed plaster, and just roll the plaster over the existing lathing and drywall that I’m putting up. I’m going to at least try it, but what is everyone’s opinion on this idea?[\quote]Well, that might work, but depending on the existing texture, it will be near imposible to match. Like you said, try it. I have done a lot of remodels, and I finally just bought a small compresser and texture gun. Gives you the basic ‘orange peal’ texture common in new houses. It covers up mistakes in your tapeing. Also, you can try a ‘stomp’ brush (thats what I call it). Mix up some drywall joint compound at about 75% compound and 25% water, dip the brush in it and stomp the wall with it. Wait till its about half dry and knock it down with a broad tape knife. Takes experimentation, but ends up looking a bit like stucko.
You are going to tape it, right? Thats a whole nother issue.
For just texture, you don’t need blueboard. If you are going to plaster it, it may be a different thing.
What fun, I’m doing an addition on mine right now (exept my brother blew out his ACL setting a wall last weekend).
Buy a couple of broad knifes for tapeing. Say a 6" and 8" to start. You will use these to taper the mud into the joints you are trying to fill. Buy a ‘bread pan’ this is your mud holder as you are working stuff. About the size of a bread pan, with steel edges, helps you keep your knifes clean and load mud on your knife.
I would not start any of this untill or unless you know about tapeing the joints, you WILL end up with cracks in you drywall if you do not tape the joints.
Also, my best advice, buy good tools. Never have to buy them again.
**Sorry can’t really picture it. But it does sound like a system made for remodel. You say it has a transformer, so it is a low volt system?
[quote]
**I’m thinking of prying this metal bar from the recessed light and transformer in order to separate the two parts. I’ll resplice the wires afterward, but atleast then the clips only have to support the canister, and nothing else. Then I’ll attach the transformer to a beam, in some fashion, instead of having it simply resting on the top of the ceiling above my head.
**
Again, don’t know your situation, but have you considered pulling down all the lath and plaster and re-drywall the whole ceiling? It sounds as if you are going to try to match existing texture/lath with drywall and texture. Never worked with lath and plaster myself, but I would consider getting rid of it. Otherwise you have a bunch of patches. The only time I have used blue board is in bathrooms. It has a greater resistance to moisture. I think Finagle is worried about the amount of moisture in the plaster you are thinking about putting up to match the existing ceiling. If you think you can texture it with a roller, you aren’t plastering, you are texturing (hope that makes sence).
Well, that might work, but depending on the existing texture, it will be near imposible to match. Like you said, try it. I have done a lot of remodels, and I finally just bought a small compresser and texture gun. Gives you the basic ‘orange peal’ texture common in new houses. It covers up mistakes in your tapeing. Also, you can try a ‘stomp’ brush (thats what I call it). Mix up some drywall joint compound at about 90% compound and 210% water, dip the brush in it and stomp the wall with it. Wait till its about half dry and knock it down with a broad tape knife. Takes experimentation, but ends up looking a bit like stucko.
You are going to tape it, right? Thats a whole nother issue.
For just texture, you don’t need blueboard. If you are going to plaster it, it may be a different thing.
What fun, I’m doing an addition on mine right now (exept my brother blew out his ACL setting a wall last weekend).
Buy a couple of broad knifes for tapeing. Say a 6" and 8" to start. You will use these to taper the mud into the joints you are trying to fill. Buy a ‘bread pan’ this is your mud holder as you are working stuff. About the size of a bread pan, with steel edges, helps you keep your knifes clean and load mud on your knife.
I would not start any of this untill or unless you know about tapeing the joints, you WILL end up with cracks in you drywall if you do not tape the joints.
Also, my best advice, buy good tools. Never have to buy them again.
In review, I have to ask - How big are the areas that you have to patch around the lights? Small patches can be done, but will still be hard to match.
If you’re trying to mix new drywall with old lathing and then plaster over it, it won’t work. The lath allowed plaster to flow around it, creating a good bond. On the drywall, it’ll end up flaking off. Plus, you just won’t get the right flow needed to make it all look even.
I’ve done many of these remodels. And usually, I pull off the lath, hang new drywall, texture to match the style of the house.
On the lighting, do the clips fit behind the drywall or around the edge?
Either way, just screw them in using drywall screws.
When you float out the cieling, the mud will fill in the holes. The trim will probably cover it, too. Put on the trim after the entire cieling is finished.
Well, you really should have bought the new installation canister lights – fastening the canisters to the joists is much sturdier. (The name “new installation” is somewhat misleading – it just means that you have access to the joists because there is currently no drywall in the way.)
I assume that the renovation-style clips are strong enough to hold the light in place, otherwise they’d be getting complaints from customers. But you might check out the company’s website for instructions (or at least a support line).
As for drywall – if you are skim-coating, you need blue board as it’s chemically coated to bond with the plaster. Green board is the stuff that enipla was referring to that’s resistant to water.
To apply plaster, you pretty much have to do it the old-fashioned way – mix it up, apply it with a trowel, smooth it, and keep smoothing it and spraying it with water as it cures. I watched the plasterer do my ceiling and it’s quite an art, especially given the awkward position.