Homeopathy

From “Straight Dope” column printed in C-VILLE Weekly in Feb. 2000:

Dear Cecil:
This friend of mine is taking a homeopathic remedy for a cold. He explained
that it’s “the vibration of the molecules of the plant” that is the active
remedy here. What’s up with this?
–Joanne Keefe, Albuquerque, New Mexico

Cecil replies:
Homeopathy! I can’t believe this has made a comeback. The last time
homeopathy was big, Ulysses S. Grant was president. Now here it is, two
months into the year 2000, and you walk into one of these pricey organic
supermarkets and see aisles full of homeopathic nostrums, all of which have
a proven effectiveness on a par with eye of newt. So, recognizing the
complete futility of the effort, I feel obliged to state for the record:
Come on, folks. This is nuts.
Homeopathy was founded by the German physician Samuel Hahnemann
(1755-1843). He enunciated what remain today the guiding principles of
homeopathic medicine, the foremost of which is the Law of Similars: if a
large amount of medicine produces a given symptom, then a small amount of
the medicine will stimulate the body to combat that symptom. This isn’t a
completely crazy concept; modern vaccines use the same basic idea. The
twist with homeopathic medicines is that they reverse the usual
understanding of dose effectiveness. Mainstream science holds that,
generally speaking, the potency of a drug increases with the dose.
Homeopathy–in particular, the Law of Infinitesimals–says the medicine’s
effectiveness decreases with the dose. The less you use, the better it
works! Which would lead one to conclude that it works best if you don’t use
any at all.
Homeopaths don’t say that, of course, but it’s the practical impact of the
fantastic dilutions they employ. Two scales are used, X and C. A 1X
solution means the original medicine (the “mother tincture”) was diluted
with water, alcohol, or whatever to one part in ten, or 1/10; 2X is 1/100;
3X is 1/1,000; etc. A 1C solution is 1/100, 2C is 1/10,000, 3C is
1/1,000,000, and so on. Most homeopathic remedies range from 6X to 30X. At
30X, chances are that a given dose of the medicine doesn’t contain a single
molecule of the original, but some dilutions go a lot higher than that.
I’ve heard of one cold remedy with a dilution of 200C, which mathematically
is less than one molecule per all the known matter in the universe.
How, then, can homeopathy possibly work? Apologists fall back on
far-fetched explanations involving energy and vibrations and so on. A key
step in the manufacture of homeopathic medicines is “succussion,” in which
the mixture is vigorously shaken at each stage of the dilution process.
This miraculously unlocks the healing power of the medicinal substance.
Could be just my Catholic background talking, but that sounds like making
holy water to me.
Homeopathic remedies can legally be sold as drugs in the U.S. owing to an
odd circumstance–one of the key sponsors of the Federal Food, Drug, and
Cosmetic Act of 1938 was a homeopathic physician, and he was able to get
the entire homeopathic pharmacopoeia (nux vomica, arsenicum album, et al)
officially recognized. Homeopathy has enjoyed a quasi-protected status ever
since, with federal regulators generally taking the view that the practice
is harmless and that any attempt to suppress it would likely have political
repercussions. There have even been studies in journals with varying
degrees of credibility purporting to show that homeopathy actually works.
These have been roundly criticized on methodological grounds, and the
universal view among scientists is that any perceived benefit is simply a
placebo effect–you think something is going to help you, so it does.
Why does belief in homeopathy persist? Well, for most routine,
common-cold-type health complaints, it’s not noticeably less effective than
mainstream medicine, or noticeably different in its therapeutic approach.
People catch “bugs” that are never diagnosed (and which, if viral, have no
cure anyway), take some over-the-counter remedy that claims to address the
symptoms, and eventually get better. Did the over-the-counter remedy help?
Who knows? It’s silly to believe in homeopathic cures, but I’m not seeing
that it’s smarter to place your faith in Sudafed instead.

Cecil Adams can deliver the Straight Dope on any topic. Write Cecil at the
Chicago Reader, 11 E. Illinois, Chicago 60611, or E-mail him at
cecil@chicagoreader.com.


Dear C-VILLE Editors,

Your readership has been done a grave disservice by the narrow-minded, ignorant, arrogant, scientistic bigotry promulgated by Mr. Cecil Adams in his column “StraightDope: Good Vibrations” in the February 29, 2000, issue of the C-VILLE Weekly. Mr. Adams is seriously misinformed about the history, scientific basis and therapeutic effectiveness of homeopathic medicine. C-VILLE Weekly needs to be far more circumspect in their choice of self-proclaimed ‘expert’ columnists.

Contrary to his erroneous belief, homeopathic medicine is today practiced by many thousands of well-trained physicians and licensed health care practitioners treating tens of millions of patients worldwide. Homeopathy is acknowledged by the World Health Organization and homeopathic health care is subsidized by the governments of many nations due to its recognized cost-effectiveness. Homeopathic medicine was very popular and widely practiced in the U.S. for at least 30 years beyond Ulysses Grant’s tenure in the oval office. Political and economic subterfuge, fostered by the pharmaceutical industry and AMA, lead to the virtual suppression of homeopathy and other complementary alternative medicine in the U.S. by the 1920s and 1930s. This is well-documented in the treatise on the history of medicine in America by the world-renowned historian, Dr. Harris Coulter (“Divided Legacy: The Conflict between Homeopathy and the AMA, Vol. 3”). Fortunately, due to an increasingly educated and better informed American public, and a general dissatisfaction with the failures of conventional, orthodox medicine, widespread utilization of homeopathy and other CAM therapies has been revitalized in the U.S. since the early 1970s.

Mr. Adams misstated the fundamental principle of Nature underlying homeopathic medical practice, the Law of Similars. It is actually defined as: a medicinal substance that can produce a certain set of symptoms in a healthy person, in a controlled clinical trial, can be used to stimulate a curative process in a sick person with a similar set of symptoms. The Law of Similars is a ‘qualitative’ principle, not a ‘quantitative’ one, as Mr. Adams infers. Orthodox medicine makes occassional, unwitting use of this principle – vaccinations, allergic desensitization, and the use of Ritalin, a central nervous system stimulant, in the treatment of hyperactive children are some examples. Homeopathy, on the other hand, represents an entire system of health care based upon this unerring, fundamental principle of Nature.

He is further in error about the scientific principles underlying homeopathic pharmacology, which in essence, is designed to extract, purify and concentrate the electromagnetic resonance qualities within the original material substance that is undergoing the potentization process. This process of potentization enables the homeopathic physician to prescribe medicines which possess an enhanced curative effectiveness and essentially no toxic side effects, in sharp contrast to current orthodox drugs. Advances in modern science in the last century and beyond, e.g., quantum mechanics and unified field theory, chaos theory, small cluster theory, the electromagnetic memory of water, new concepts of the higher states of ‘ice’ crystallization, etc., all strongly support the scientific foundations of homeopathic medicine. Clinical research, published in respected, conventional

You are doubtless referring to this column by Cecil Adams:

What’s up with homeopathy? (25-Feb-2000)

You might be interested in reading comments in this thread, in this same forum:

homeopathy

Jeez, there is so much wrong with that message that I hardly know where to begin (nor do I have time to address it all right now). Let’s start with:

Acknowledged as what?

Sure! It’s much more cost-effective to give somebody water than actual medicine!

So what? Astrology has been “popular and widely practiced” for centuries. That doesn’t mean it’s anything but total BS.

Oh, give me a break! The only reason homeopathy is “suppressed” is because it completely lacks any scientific validity.

We’ve already addressed this particular piece of nonsense in the other homeopathy thread (probably addressed the others as well, but don’t recall for sure). Vaccination has nothing to do with homeopathy. Nice try to hook homeopathy onto legitimate medicine, though.

What a bunch of meaningless hooey. You can use all the cool-sounding buzzwords you want, but until you actually provide valid scientific evidence that it works, buzzwords don’t mean a thing.

Certainly there are no toxic side effects – there are no effects of any kind! Again, you make statements but don’t provide evidence – what is these “enhanced curative effectiveness”? Where has it been proven according to proper scientific procedure?

Homeopathy sure is in sharp contrast to real drugs – they actually do something.

Please explain exactly how this is so.

Please back up this claim.

Want to provide me with the newspaper address so I can write a letter back to them pointing out all the flaws in your letter, should they decide to print it?

Ha, Ha, Ha!..whew!..good one!..This “world renowned historian” has a degree in education, believes that AIDS is simply Syphilis and reportedly claims to have developed a cancer vaccine, no doubt suppressed by “political and economic subterfuge, fostered by the pharmaceutical industry and AMA”.

I believe that a response that I had to Dr. Tom Bozzuto on the other forum fits quite nicely here:

“BTW, it appears that Dr. Bozzuto made no currently accepted “quantum physics” or “plasma chemistry” arguments in support of his “theory of how homeopathy works”. These terms are often used by hucksters and snake-oil salesmen to give their products an air of “scientific-ness”. Unless he wants to cast his lot with the common huckster that oversells his MLM scheme, he might reconsider the use of these terms unless he actually puts forth a solid “quantum physics” or “plasma chemistry” argument.”

I think that we could include unified field theory, chaos theory, “small cluster theory” and the rest of Dr. Fleisher’s list to this statement.

In short, there is no such theoretical scientific support of homeopathy. Maybe I could be a little more cautious, since scientists rarely make such sweeping statements. I have seen no scientific basis for homeopathy, yet. There certainly has been no “strong support” from these theories for homeopathy. I believe that Dr. Fleisher is blowing smoke here.

I have another question regarding the “Law of Similars”. Is this a “law” in the sense of the Laws of Motion? How was this “law” established? Are there mathematical proofs? I hold that it is a statement of faith and that all “acceptable” homeopathic research must conform to this statement of faith, much like “creation science” must conform to the creation story.

Jon Keller

“The Earth revolves around the Sun. The Earth is round. Man will fly. Thalidomide is not safe.”

These are all statements that were, at one time or another, considered moronic, fanciful, hilarious, not based on sound scientific principles or downright heretical.

I am appalled by the tone and substance of David B.’s response to Dr. Mitchell A. Fleisher’s post. David, you have a right to express your opinion – however, I don’t believe you have the right to belittle or make fun of the opinions of others. I have read both Cecil’s column on the subject (which I found a little harsh) and Dr. Fleisher’s response. I think the whole subject warrants more discussion, but does not call for such virulent comments from a small-minded, opinionated, pseudo-scientific, blinder-wearing, holier-than-thou “expert”(?).

I sincerely believe that it is attitudes like yours that keep science from making faster advances – attitudes from egotistical, grant-grubbing university graduates who have had their imaginations ground down by too much knowledge, who have lost the ability to make intuitive leaps, and who cannot accept or even respect someone else’s beliefs and opinions since their own takes up most of their brains. You should be careful, better people than you have fallen pretty hard from their “ivory tower”.

Hey man, I’m not saying homeopathy works or it doesn’t – I am not expressing an opinion on that subject in this post. I’m just saying, be respectful of another’s opinion. Put up an argument if you want, but don’t **** all over him.

That’s my 5 cents.

:o I apologize for offending anyone by seemingly overstepping the bounds of newbydom. From reading the different posts, I feel that intelligent discourse and thoughtful arguments are the norm, not this blatant disregard of someone’s opinion. I hope I didn’t go over the line…

Catherine, I beg to differ.

Dr. Fleisher has every right to hold her opinion. But her using words like " narrow-minded, ignorant, arrogant, scientistic bigotry" in the very first paragraph definitely makes her very fair game. Her using a lot of cool-sounding scientific jargon without presenting a single bit of evidence does not speak in her favor, either. This board fights ignorance by asking people to back up their allegations, and the esteemed Dr. have made a lot. David asked for evidence for some of the more astounding claims - and if you think he was rude, I suggest you check out some of the creationist threads. Believe me, he’s being as gentle as I’ve ever seen him.

So yes, people are entitled to their opinion - but if they try to convince others that their opinion is based on facts, they should be prepared to present some of those facts. Specifically,if they claim to have a scientific backing for their opinion, they’d better be prepared to present the evidence.

And demanding extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims does not slow down scientific progress; on the contrary, it keeps real scientists from wasting their time.

Heck, it was good fun to read.

Norman

Sorry, Catherine - simulpost.

I for one don’t think you’re “overstepping the bounds of newbydom”. People are having fun at Dr. Fleishers expense, but she has done an extremely poor job of presenting her point of view.

And if you want to see David B at his best (or worst), check out some of the creation vs. evolution threads.

Norman

Did I remember to mention that the Creation/Evolution threads are a good place to see… - eh, never mind.

Norman

  • I HATE when that happens.

Welcome to the Straight Dope, Doc, even if I am a newbie here myself.

Even if we were, just for the sake of argument, to agree that homeopathy is completely legit (and I don’t), there would still be problems with your defense of it.

drmitchmd said:

Leaving aside the enormous problems with the law of similars, it’s plain that there’s a mistake here somewhere. The law of similars (as you define it) is about symptoms and cures. Vaccines can’t be an example of the law of similars at work because they don’t produce symptoms in healthy people and they don’t cure sick ones. They don’t “stimulate a curative process,” either, if you feel that means something different. Vaccines are preventative measures.

Unpleasant ways of explaining this discrepancy include:

  1. You, a trained homeopathic care provider, have misrepresented the law of similars, the fundemental basis for the entire field of homeopathy, or

  2. You, a trained medical doctor, do not know what a vaccine is.

Orthodox medicine has virtually eliminated smallpox, polio, measles, tuberculosis, leprosy, and a host of other diseases that posed real threats to the public health just a few generations ago. Partly as a result, we enjoy the best health and the longest life expectancies of any people in history.

So: What “failures of conventional, orthodox medicine?” I am not in the habit of calling an overwhelmingly successful solution to a serious life-and-death problem a “failure.”

 Slight problem with your argument: You are trying to slip the cornerstone of your position through as if it were a given, when it's nothing of the kind. The only modern location I've run into it other than in regard to homeopathy is in fantasy role playing games!

Catherine said:

Oh, good. Twice in a couple minutes that I’ve seen the old, “They laughed at that idea” ploy. Well, as I just said to somebody else in a different thread, being laughed at does not make one right. It might just mean they’re ridiculously wrong. And that’s the case with homeopathy – at least as far as any evidence shows today.

You’ll forgive me if I don’t cry. I’m appalled by his post and his utter disregard for proper science.

Um, have you actually ever read Cecil Adams? Just curious…

You’re right – Dr. Fleischer should not have posted what he did. Or wasn’t that what you meant?

Yadda yadda yadda. So, do you actually have anything to add to the discussion, or are you just gonna whine 'cus I punctured the good doctor’s pomposity with facts?

I’m shaking in my boots.

Good for you. Then why bother posting to this thread?

He posted a load of ****. I pointed out that it stinks. Don’t blame the messenger.

Just thought I’d mention that there is at least one other very long thread on this topic earlier on this board, if anyone would like to read more responses to the column.
Jill

  • Mitchell A. Fleisher, M.D., from the capitalized thread ( you’re soaking in it )

I am really interested in this juxtaposition. Vaccination does seem analogous to homeopathy, but it’s just an analogy. I wouldn’t take it seriously either way, any more than I would take it literally when someone says the “Scared Straight” program “vaccinates” kids against criminal behaviour by exposure to real-life convicts.

The funny thing is, two of our homeopathy advocates have taken this analogy very seriously, one saying it is completely wrong and Frankensteinian (I love that word and will endeavour to use it daily, by the way) and one seeming to imply that it goes beyond mere analogy. So I wonder if the forces of homeopathy are rent internally by a struggle over whether or not to align themselves with the vaccinators.

Boris, would that be pronnounced “franken-stine-eum” or “fronken-steen-eum”?

Fronkenshteenian! [stabs self in thigh with syringe]

I suppose I am picking nits here, but incidence of TB has been on the rise now for several years. Leprosy still occurs, but is now more treatable. Measles and polio still pop up now and again, usually because people don’t get vaccinated for various reasons. AFAIK, smallpox is the only disease that has been totally eliminated.
You ask for failures in “failures of conventional, orthodox medicine.” There are of course many many failures. The inability to cure or prevent the common cold, the inabilty to save a goodly number of cancer victims, the inability to prevent or cure HIV/AIDS, the rising number of antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria are just a few. I am NOT saying that orthodox medicine is a failure, but we shouldn’t get our arguments mixed up. The big difference, IMO, is that orthodox medicine acknowledges that there is work to do, and is continuously striving to improve, while most of the alternate modalities I am aware of say “It’s been done that way for years and it seems to work.”


“You can be smart or pleasant. For years I was smart.
I recommend pleasant.”
Elwood P. Dowd

Readers

:o
Typical baloney by another so-called defender of Quackery, I mean Homeopathy.
The good “Dr” should use salutation “disrespectfully”.
Sorry that Cecil is threatening your Livelihood,perhaps you can make an honest living making sandwiches in a deli. :smiley:
The “Doctor” uses that same old B.S. “confrontation” method used by the 70’s
“touchy-feely” pop psych groups. Yell and abuse the group to establish dominance and to quash all dissent. Thank Sagan that not everyone is falling for this parlor trick.
I resent you labeling anyone who disagrees with the practice of Homeopathy as bigoted and narrow-minded.
I would hate to have you as my MD in an emergency.
Respectfully:P
Claw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Your readership has been done a grave disservice by the narrow-minded, ignorant, arrogant, scientistic bigotry promulgated by Mr. Cecil Adams in his column “StraightDope: Good Vibrations” in the February 29, 2000, issue of the C-VILLE Weekly. Mr. Adams is seriously misinformed about the history, scientific basis and therapeutic effectiveness of homeopathic medicine. C-VILLE Weekly needs to be far more circumspect in their choice of self-proclaimed ‘expert’ columnists.Respectfully yours,
Mitchell A. Fleisher, M.D., F.A.A.F.P. www.alternativemedcare.com
info@alternativemedcare.com
Nellysford, VA

Ok, certainly, it’s a bit rude to stomp all over somebody else’s opinions. Would someone please tell me what this has to do with the current thread? We’re not talking about opinions here, we’re asking does homeopathy work, or does it not? This is a matter of experiment, of evidence. If someone wants to defend homeopathy, then they should do studies, or perform experiments, or otherwise provide some form of evidence, instead of just saying “Mommy! He called me a bad name!” Incidentally, just saying “studies in respected medical journals have shown that it works” isn’t enough… Tell us what studies, and where we can get a copy of said journals.


“There are only two things that are infinite: The Universe, and human stupidity-- and I’m not sure about the Universe”
–A. Einstein

You’re exactly right, Chronos. The reason this thread is so bereft of actual debate is that we’re exhausted. This thread is 100% redundant. The other homeopathy thread, started almost exactly the same way by another pro-homeopath, went five pages with lots of real info. Defenders of homeopathy are few and far between, and they haven’t convinced any of us that distilled water can be any more effective as a medical treatment, than, say, distilled water. But they argument has happened. This is just the dying embers.