My girlfriend is a kindergarten teacher and had the pleasure of having a previously-homeschooled child in her class. He spent much of the year silently hiding under his desk. By first grade, he actually interacted awkwardly with his classmates occasionally. It was the result of his parents just being way too much into his life.
I think it’s a question of what you think is more important: academic excellence or social adjustment. Personally, I think that if you raise your kid right, they’ll do well at almost any school (said as a proud product of the Los Angeles Unified School District).
I’m a homeschooling parent whose kid has currently decided to check school out. I doubt he will stay there permanently but so far he’s OK.
Homeschooling is a huge commitment for the parents but IME a worthwhile one. I’ve seen less than wonderful homeschooling parents and ones who are fabulous. I’ve seen religious nutcases who scare me witless. I’ve seen hothousing parents who scare me witless. I’ve seen kids who are socially well adjusted and those who are not.
But newsflash! I’ve seen kids who attend school and I can say the same things of them. IME it is just that because we make the choice which is not the routine choice that we get put under the microscope and our kids get scrutinised.
My kid’s back in school and for the last 7 weeks he has done NOTHING academically! The school are waiting for the Guidance Officer to do an assessment so they know what to do. I just got on with teaching him myself ;). The school have been at great pains to point out that he has gaps in his knowledge. I’d hazard a guess that there are kids in M’s classroom who attended school for the last three years who also have gaps in their knowledge.
Guin, unschooling is a way of learning where the kids follow their interests. IMO if the parent-teacher is enormously committed and well resourced then it can be a great way to learn but it’s a huge commitment. I’m dubious about it WRT core subjects. I can feasibly see it working with a kid who is reading and writing fluently but leaving a kid illiterate until they want to learn to read, gives me the heebiejeebies. However there are unschooled kids who are now in college so I guess it is working for some families.
I’ve dealt with homeschooled kids in several situations. Mostly I’ve found them to be bright and precocious. I agree that they can be awkward in some social situations, but this begs a question:
Are the social situations we create in traditional schools healthy?
Being a public school teacher myself, I would argue no. Public schools are structured as they are mainly to push as many kids through as quickly as possible, expending as few resources as possible. I feel most procedures result from the necessity of accomodating the logistics of the situation, and not on what is educationall sound.
Public schools are factories by necessity, and I can’t blame anyone for taking their children out of them.
(I continue to teach because I try hard to do things a bit differently, but it’s hard. I don’t fit in well in the culture of teachers, and am often seen as a troublemaker)
If I had kids I would homeschool or find another alternative.
I have no personal experience in the matter, but I’ve often wondered if the social-awkwardness thing might be less to do with the fact that these kids are home-schooled than with the reason some of them are. I mean I’d sort of expect that a child whose parents don’t want interacting with the godless heathens at PS 47 is probably going to grow up a little bit weird anyway. Do kids who are home-schooled for other reasons, and who are allowed an otherwise normal social life, have the same problems adjusting?
Another possibility is that the reason they are homeschooled is becasue they are socially awkward. I have a cousin who had a lot of emotional problems when he was younger–he needed a few more years to learn to control his anger nad his frustration than what is considered “normal”. My aunt homeschooled him, and her other three children. The other three are as sociable as can be, but the one still has a certain degree of social awkwardness. Had he been ‘socialized’ by the casual brutality of his peers I suspect that it would be even worse, not better.
How about some information?? Here’s a source for homeschooling info by state.
Though many seem to be thinking of home schooling as mom or dad teaching their own child in the home, that’s not always the case, there’s some folks who join together to have their kids home schooled. I’ve met home schooled kids in a variety of out-of-school activities. The one thing that I have noticed (anectdotally), is that I’ll be surprised to hear this info plopped out during casual conversations with semi strangers (like looking at videos at the video store ‘oh, you like Top Secret, too?’ “yes, I do, and so does my home schooled daughter that I have here attached to my wrist” - somewhat facetious, but damn close to the reality)
For me, personally, not only did I not choose home schooling, but I went to great lengths to keep my son at an inner city school, vs. the rural damn near segregated one. But that was my personal choice. I guess this isn’t the hot button topic for me, but did want to provide some links for folks to peruse. [sub] and mostly wanted to add this little aside:[/sub]
(Freedom, can I please teach your children about politics??? puleeeeeeeeeeze? )
I work outside the home, and my husband homeschools our son. We are not fundies at all, and not very religious either. We took him out of school in the 9th grade when he refused to do his homework and started failing every class. He had always had trouble with self-discipline, and we tried very hard to communicate with the teachers and keep up with his schoolwork, but if the child doesn’t cooperate, (by bringing home the correct books, etc.) parents don’t have a lot of control. My son tried to cover up his failing by running away several times, in an attempt to get us (me, mostly) to feel sorry for him, thereby getting out of punishment for bad grades. What a whirlwind we went through with him.
The first year we tried this we decided to fail him, due to his self-discipline problems. The next year turned out better. He certainly didn’t want to fail 9th grade again, no excuses could be manufactured for why he didn’t do his work, and his Dad and he were getting along better because he had a better attitude. This year has been a bit of a struggle, but he’s getting mostly B’s. We had to make him quit his job after 6 months and several warnings that his grades were falling.
We hope to let him go back to public school for 11th and 12th grades. Socialization hasn’t been too big a problem. We have a large group of friends whose children are my son’s friends. The problem has been meeting girls and dating. He hasn’t had much of an opportunity for that.
All in all, in our case, homeschooling has worked out well. It was a discipline problem for the most part, but we have succeeded in teaching him how to learn, and how to study.
FWIW, we’re in Texas. The school was very cooperative with us when we wanted to take him out of school.
Yeah, I’m with you, but I think there’s probably more going on than you realize. Following some of Wring’s links (geez, those about.com people have links out the wazoo, ain’t they? ), here’s some Pennsylvania info.
You have to file affidavits, keep a log of what you’re teaching, have an annual evaluation, and send the kid for testing at regular intervals. Not quite as simple as “you pull your kids out and they give you the material”, so there’s probably a serious non-compliance factor going on with your neighbor. Salt of the earth, eh? :rolleyes:
Not only do we disagree on this, but we also probably disagree on the way to deal with the bullies, drugs and alcohol. There is no reason an 8 year old should be thrown to the wolves.
This is easily avoided with a little effort. Besides, there are things my kid is GOING TO DO whether he likes or not, at least until he reaches his teenage years.
What you don’t know, is that because you were not homeschooled, you missed meeting a budding millionare who would offered you an equal stake in Yahoo! when it was just starting. You would have accepted and then cashed in all your money to buy the Chicago Reader. You would own this board and be an administrator instead of a lowly poster like the rest of us.
The “what if” game is pretty ridiculous. If I’m going to spend my life wondering what would have happened had I turned right instead of left, then I would never get anything done.
Would you mind explaining how my children are going to manage to grow up without getting any experiernce? It may be different than yours, but then so is every other kid’s childhood who didn’t grow up in your country.
While your at it, could you explain the “superiority nonsense” thing? I’m holding my breath to see what rock that line crawled out from under.
What makes you think I’m going to shelter them? Was every child in the world born before public schooling sheltered?
…And I would like to thank TitoBenito for posting the best arguement for homeschooling that I have ever seen. It is so perfect, that I’m sitting here wondering if I missed the joke.
Excepts follow: [sub] I almost can’t figure out which parts to edit out[/sub]
ahhh…
What a perfect arguement for homeschooling. Fortunately for me, I see the world in a different light. Of course, I also work for myself. Employment is not the only option, I’m sorry no one taught(<–see?:)) you that earlier in life.
I think both can be handled better in a homeschool environment, depending on the parents.
We are a mixed couple, and our circle of friends is mixed. Our child will never miss out on diversity.
…and no…
You can’t teach them politics until the leaders agree that you have progressed much further than I have seen up to this point.
It would seem that not only should the home-schooled children be tested, but also the parents who want to do the home-schooling. Why should teachers be required to meet certain standards and not the parents? I also wonder if home-schooling isn’t mostly about “religious”, and also possibly “racial” attitudes. There have been other more reasonable reasons given on this thread, but I’m talking about the majority.
My girlfriend and I are in much the same situation as Dolores Claiborne. We’ve lived together for a couple of years, and she has a 16 year old son who has just never gotten good grades in school. When we moved into a new school district last spring, they really went south.
It’s a helpless feeling, really. And it’s so hard to figure out why. Was it the shock of a new school and new surroundings, was it the hormones of adolescence, was he depressed, did the school just suck, or did he just finally get caught after years of skating by and slipping through the cracks.
The public school system hasn’t changed all that much since I was a kid, but the diversity of family situations and living arrangements sure have. Kids have to deal with a lot more turmoil in their lives now than they ever did, and they don’t all cope the same. Chris chose to cope by withdrawing from that part of the world over which he had no control. Perhaps there was a time early on in his schooling when he cried out for help. Perhaps his young, single mother who was working two jobs and going to school herself, trying her darndest to give him a decent home, didn’t hear it, and neither did his teachers. Whatever his reasons, he found that he never had to pay attention in class, or do homework, but by applying a little common sense to an exam, he could escape with a D. That, and the avoidance of Mom till she had to go to work, and the hassling would never get too bad. Unfortunately (or perhaps rather fortunately as it turns out) in 10th grade things start to get noticibly harder, and Chris, who has never really learned how to study a subject or a problem, who hasn’t learned either self discipline or control very well, and who has the shortest attention span I’ve ever seen, started thinking that maybe dropping out wasn’t such a bad idea.
At this point, Chris needs some major intervention, and some long-term one-on-one attention that he can not hope to get within the public school system. After exploring the various options available to us, and speaking with Chris’s counselors, we decided to withdraw him from his school, and enroll him in an Internet-based curriculum provided through the Christa McAuliffe Academy http://www.cmacademy.org . The curriculum is accredited through several organizations, including the same one that accredits our local school district, and isn’t religiously-affilliated at all.
So far it’s been two months, and we’re very pleased with the results. I am able to spend 2-3 hours per night with him on his lessons, and really show him how to study. The lessons are all prepared on-line, and they really make good use of graphics so you’re not just reading words on the screen all day (boooring). He’s showing more interest in his work each day, and we’re watching his confidence grow. Status is monitored ruthlessly, and deadlines for work are strictly enforced - so no more con jobs, and he knows it! We know it’s just the beginning of a long road, but things look great so far.
The real down-side is that it’s so expensive ($250/month). Not everyone who could benefit from a program like this will ever be able to take advantage, and that’s a shame.
I regularly pass by a city public school as the students are leaving at the end of a day. For every thirty or so students, only one is carrying books, a book bag, or papers.
I conclude that hardly anyone is doing any homework.
No wonder many of these students flunk the state proficiency exam.
FWIW, four of the last five kids who won the National Spelling Bee were home schooled.
Most home schooled kids will do as well as any child would with a full time, highly motivated tutor. That is to say, they will be light years ahead of most public school graduates.
Most parents who home school their kids are serious about their responsibilities regarding education. You and I may not agree about all their priorities, but I don’t know any home school parents who do not focus like lasers on fundamentals like reading and math, and what is elementary school for besides that?
I have forgotten most of what I learned in high school, anyway, so I doubt if the disadvantage of having a different curriculum from the public schools outweighs the advantage of being tutored by someone who was totally disinterested in excuses or theories.
My kids go to a Christian private school, and my experience is that yes, most home school parents are conservative Christians (at least in this area). But my kids’ school has lots of after school activities into which home schooled kids of the area are welcomed, so by and large the home schooled kids are not as un-socialized as you might assume.
My expectation is that with home schooling, the parents set the agenda, not the public school, so the child will not have the same experience as someone who went to a public school. For better or for worse. So no drugs, no bullying, fewer dates, a greater focus on academics, and all the rest of it.
There are parents who homeschool because they think they can give their kids a better education who are right - and there are those who think the same thing and are wrong.
There are parents who are sheltering their kids from public school - for good reasons (i.e. school with students out of control), and for bad ones (want children to be completely innocent to pop culture).
There are kids who do well when their parents teach them, and kids who do poorly. There are well adjusted home schooled kids, and ones that couldn’t find a social skill with both hands. Both these things are also true for kids who go to public school, even the worst ones, and kids who go to private school - even the really good expensive ones have kids who don’t do well and aren’t well adjusted.
There are parents who are good intentioned and do well, and those that have a hard time following through.
I had a homeschooled kid in one of my courses in college - nice, well-adjusted, bright. But then the failures don’t get accepted to Universities, and the poorly adjusted ones who aced their SATs don’t meet for coffee so you learn about them and blame homeschooling for their poor adjustment. The ones that can’t spell aren’t going to their regional bees to begin with. The general public sees a very self-selected group of homeschooled kids.
From the debate here in Minnesota recently, you aren’t going to get good stats - there is a significant percentage of these people who are homeschooling to keep the government out of their lives, and aren’t real excited about people poking.
There isn’t any. IMO there won’t ever be any. Take me FI and many others I know, due to the laws in my state, I’m an illegal homeschooler. I don’t appear anywhere on any assessment of homeschooling. I’m illegal because the law is an ass WRT my particular kid. To get any hard research done of people who don’t necessarily co-operatewith the state and many of whom do not believe in grading or assessment is going to be a hard task.
There was a study done which showed incredibly good results a couple of years ago. However IMO it was a worthless piece of research because it only used students of the Bob Jones Academy as the research body. There was a lot of generalisation from this study on the homeschooling lists and sites but geez, people! All it showed was that if you were middleclass and could afford Bob Jones Academy you had a chance of doing well.
Wouldn’t be surprised with my neighbor. Knowing her, she’s having someone fudging something, or she knows someone who’s involved with the testing or something. Because those kids are just juvenile delinquents. They’re MOVING, thank god, I can’t wait. All they do is cause trouble.
Though I normally agree that fuzzy anecdotes are mostly noise that obscures actual information, I think they are useful when making a decision about something as varible as homeschooling: Using “hard data” on the sucess of homeschooling to decide whether or not to homeschool a particular child would be like using “hard data” about the effectivness of marrige to decide whether or not to marry a particular person.
I had debated this subject before, and had clippings of something called “The Ray Study” lying around on my hard drive.
So I’ll just paste those excerpts here, for the moment, as they were very surprising to me.
Is Dr. Ray unbiased? No.
Are his methods sound? I think he did a reasonably good job with an extremely difficult to sample group.
As for the “socialization” argument against homeschooling, I think it’s nonsense. I mean, homeschoolers typically don’t homeschool in a vacuum. They form coops, and maintain networks, and go on field trips. At least the ones I know do. And they are pretty organized, politically.
I’d be honored to homeschool my children.
Still looking for the right mother, though.
{edited for copyright infringement. Post only short excerpts, if you must, or preferably a link. --Gaudere}
[Edited by Gaudere on 04-03-2001 at 02:40 AM]
)