You have not provided any cites which support there is political persecution today in HK. None. Zero.
First you claimed they lived in fear of the “Red army walking in”. Then you claimed the red army occupied HK like the Nazis Denmark :rolleyes: And now you cannot provide a single cite in support of that. Not a single party or group objecting to the presence of the PLA in HK. Not a single group which says they would rather be independent from China. Not a single person imprisoned. Nothing. You got nothing. Absolutely fucking nothing. That’s what you got.
And you try to come up with vague laws that whatever they may mean, which is very disputable, as a fact we know that in HK they do not mean what you want them to mean. You can always find a law in the books of any country and try to make it paramount and leave everything else aside. So the citizens of HK need to get a passport to leave HK and that is a terrible thing? OK, now show me all those people who have been denied passports to leave HK. Where are they? Where are all those people who “live in fear of the Chinese army walking in” and who are denied passports to leave?
You cannot find a single, solitary, instance in the last five years? Come on! try harder! I am sure you can find at least one.
The fact is that HK is, politically speaking, among the freest places in Asia.
I never did and never would. Making up shit is very different from lying. The way I understand it, “lying” is making an affirmation knowing it is false. “Making up shit” is uttering a statement with no proof, support or validation. Very different things. My accusation is not that the esteemed gentleman is posting things which he knows to be false. Not at all as for that he would need to know the truth in the first place. My affirmation is that the esteemed gentleman is posting regarding matters about which he knows nothing and he believes things to be true without any reason, just because it fits his view of “bad, communist China”.
I agree with this. In fact it is understated. HKers will in general have a poor regard of mainlanders. Particularly now that there are a lot of tourists from the mainland. They stick out and don’t fit in.
Actually, I have provided them, but "There is not currently a lot of political persecution in HK, nor did I claim there was"
What there is is fear, and a looming dread. Not of the Red Army being there, but of the red army taking over, and the reimplementation of earlier Communist polcies "The implementation of Maoist thought in China may have been responsible for over 70 million excessive deaths during peacetime,[2][3] with the Cultural Revolution, Anti-Rightist Campaign of 1957-58,[4] and the Great Leap Forward. Because of Mao’s land reforms during the Great Leap Forward, which resulted in famines, thirty million perished between 1958 and 1961. By the end of 1961 the birth rate was nearly cut in half because of malnutrition. [5] Active campaigns, including party purges and “reeducation” resulted in imprisonment and/or the execution of those deemed contrary to the implementation of Maoist ideals"
70 million dead, and there is nothing to stop it from happening again. It’s the same government.
This is exactly why a million plus HK people left before the Reds arrived. Right now, thigs are not so bad. But there’s a “sickle of Damocles” hanging over the “free people” of HK, and everyone knows it. Those freedoms could end at any time, on a whim.
Well, it is and it isn’t. Kind of hard to imagine the current PRC rulers putting through anything like the Cultural Revolution ever again. They’re not really very Communist any more.
At this point in time. Don’t you think they’ll have new leaders someday? There are “reform hardliners” active in Russia that want a return to the days of the USSR, I have little doubt there are similar dudes in China.
No, you haven’t. Not one single name or instance of a person being persecuted or being denied a passport. Not a single one. Nothing. Nada.
So living in fear of the “Red army” “walking in” and the “Red Army” in HK being like the Nazis in Denmark is the same as “not a lot of political persecution”. I see.
Again, you are making shit up. Where is the evidence of that? There is none and you have none. Where are the people running away in fear?
More recently the USA has bombed the shit out of several countries just for shits and giggles and there is nothing to stop it from happening again. So?
Sailor, in a society where public demonstrations against the government are routinely and severly punished, it’s hard to draw any conclusions from the lack of public demonstrations. Are they not occurring because the people support the government or because the people fear the government?
You have proof of that? I’d like to see it. Otherwise I do not believe it. I say demonstrations in HK are not routinely and “severly” punished. Not more than in America, anyway.
You’re questioning the fact that China imprisons and executes people for political crimes and uses military forces to break up anti-government demonstrations? Seriously? I can find cites if that’s what you’re saying but I want to make sure I’m not just misunderstanding your position here.
You may have noticed we are talking about HK, not the rest of China. Yes, I believe there is good freedom of expression in HK as I have not heard of people being arrested for demonstrating against the government. If you maintain that people in HK are “imprisoned and executed” for political crimes and that they use “military force” to break up demonstrations then I would like to see cites. Like, when was the last time military force was used to break up a demonstration in HK? Name a few people who have been imprisoned and/or executed in HK for political reasons.
There are other factors. HK was British. Culturally and geographically it stands with a foot in both China and the West. It is (and more to the point was) consequently one of the few effective doors between one of the largest nations on earth and the rest of the world. You don’t have to skim off much from the stuff passing through such a door to be successful. Being what and where it is, is a licence to print money. Unless it had had a government that was so stupid that choked the door completely, it couldn’t have been unsuccessful if it tried.
I lived in Hong Kong for half a year and what you’re saying is utter horse shit.
There are people like that in Hong Kong, they’re treated like Americans treat those civilian militia people who have their own private weapons caches. There’s a lot of grumbling about the political process but nobody seriously expects the reds to march across the border and impose martial law.
Also, as far as I’m aware, being a SAR, there’s no restrictions on emigration from anyone holding a Hong Kong passport. Mainland Chinese who live in Hong Kong face different restrictions.
Please stop making baseless assertions about the political process in Hong Kong until you can actually come up with cites that aren’t wiki articles.
Oh, and public protest is common and not cracked down upon by the authorities. Freedom of press is enshrined in the constitution and the South China Morning Post regularly posts articles critical of both the Hong Kong and Beijing Government.
Not generally, no (unless one uses the leftist definition whereby “you have to do X to get and keep this job” counts as “coercive”). Obviously, some specific cases involving some specific corrupt unions are exceptions.
There’s a lot of confusion in this thread. i just happen to be flying from HK to Shanghai right now. i lived in HK in the late 1980’s and 1994-98 and was there during the handover of sovereignity.
Some posters in this thread are taking a mix of mainland history and practices over the past 50 years and claiming this is the HK of today. This is a patently false connection (and the view of Red China is sadly out of date as well.)
I honestly don’t know where to start addressing the false ‘assertations.’ The Red Army have been in HK with a low profile since 1997. HK people have a special SAR passport and can freely emmigrate. Demonstrations are rare but allowed. the Falonggong pubicly demonstrate (i’ve witnessed tnis). Ad nauseum.
need to have a credible cite for HK (and not mainland China) if you want a debate.