DrDeth

[sailor]

Some people are just immune to reason and facts.

DrDeth, you really need a lesson in common sense. You insist there is political persecution in Hong Kong but you are unable to cite a single example of such political persecution. None. Zero. Many people who know about Hong Kong because we have traveled or lived there have told you you are wrong and yet you persist in you irrational and unfounded assertions.

In this thread about Hong Kong DrDeth just cannot let reality overcome his prejudice and ignorance.

@DrDeth

They also do not and can not spend any money on defence, and they live in daily fear of the Red Chinese army walking in.

Of course we immediately pointed out that the “Red Chinese army” had already been in Hong Kong for quite a while now. And that Hong Kong “cannot spend any money on defence” for the same reason Sioux City, Iowa, “cannot spend any money on defence”: Their respective national governments are responsible for defense.

No matter

@DrDeth

This is like the Nazi Government being responsible for the Defence of Denmark in WWII.

It’s an unwelcome foriegn army, it’s not there for their protection.

:rolleyes:

@sailor

Where are the refugees who flee HKG? Where are the demonstrations against the “occupation” of HK by the Chinese? Where are the pro-independence parties and demonstrations?

@sailor

I would like to see how in the last five years there are actual refugees. How there are substantial numbers of people in HK who want independence from China and who see the Chinese army as an occupation army. If such movements exist I have never heard of them. And I travel to HK almost every year and have friends there.

Let us see proof of all these refugees and resistance movements.

To that he keeps posting irrelevant stuff about China, not about HongKong.

@sailor

NO. Don’t change the subject. We are talking about Hong Kong. Hong Kong. Remember?

You asserted "They also do not and can not spend any money on defence, and they live in daily fear of the Red Chinese army walking in. " which is quite ignorant and nonsense because, as has been said, the “Red Chinese army” “walked in” over a decade ago. And to say they cannot spend money on defense is like saying New York cannot spend money on defense. They each spend money on defense through their national governments.

I do not have to show you people are free to travel from HK because I have had several friends from HK visit me in America and Europe. You are the one claiming persecution and lack of freedom in Hong Kong (while Sam Stone claims what makes HK work is precisely the existence of freedom).

So, where are the refugees? I am waiting for a cite. How many people have fled HK in the last five years due to political persecution? (The part about the red army “walking in” has already been shown to be nonsense.)

@DrDeth

We are talking China when we talk Hong Kong. Hong Kong is part of China, they use Chinese passorts. Thus emigration form Hong Kong is not tracked separatly.
Hong Kong Special Administrative Region passport - Wikipedia

The idiocy is just outstanding. He says emigration form Hong Kong is not tracked separatly" and yet links to a page called “Hong Kong Special Administrative Region passport”. That’s just rich. Both China and the international community, including the USA, recognise a different passport and status for Hong Kong but DrDeth wants to dilute the issue because “Hong Kong is part of China”. (And, as we all know, China is communist and bad.)

The fact is that he is unable to provide a single cite of political persecution in Hong Kong. He is totally ignorant about Hong Kong reality and his view is a simple “communist is bad”.

As many posters knowledgeable about Hong Kong have pointed out to him, Hong Kong people have freedom of expression, economic freedom, etc comparable to any other free country.

But he persists in his prejudiced and ignorant view of Hong Kong (and China in general).

DrDeth, what do you know about HK? How many times have you been there? Over the last 12 years I have spent cumulatively about 18 months in Hong Kong and Guangdong. China Guy has lived there and now lives in Shanghai. We and others are telling you that you are wrong and ignorant about Hong Kong reality and you need to either educate yourself or just shut up.

If you are going to insist there is political persecution in Hong Kong you need to supply specific examples of political persecution in Hong Kong. Saying that it is in China which is a communist country means there has to be political persecution is not enough. You need to provide specific examples or shut up.

By the way, I am flying to Hong Kong in a few days and will be traveling in Guangdong for the next six weeks.

[Liberal]

I think DrDeth is a woman.

[sailor]

Missed the edit window.

From another related thread:

@DrDeth

No, all you said was the currently HK is a peachy-keen place to live and many there are happy with the situation. I never said elsewise. Many people are happy to exchange security for freedom.

@sailor

So Hong Kong people “live in fear of the Red army marching in” but they are “happy with the situation”? People are happy to live in fear?

[aldiboronti]

Are you really saying that all the freedoms enjoyed by Hong Kong under the British have been preserved inviolate?

BTW that’s a real question. I cheerfully confess my almost complete ignorance on this subject.

[Cervaise]

@Liberal

I think DrDeth is a woman.

Man, woman, DrDeth is a chronic and longstanding dumbass.

[sailor]

@aldiboronti

Are you really saying that all the freedoms enjoyed by Hong Kong under the British have been preserved inviolate?

BTW that’s a real question. I cheerfully confess my almost complete ignorance on this subject.

Suggested reading from the original thread: One country, two systems

[sailor]

I did not know she was female and now I suddenly have an image of an elderly woman who is not very sharp due to age. I really do not mean to be insulting, just that she needs to understand when she is out of her depth and maybe just stay out of those threads.

@DrDeth

Like I said, too many people out there are happy if things are OK right now no matter how bad things could get. I have no doubt many are happy, as they aren’t starving and have some place to sleep.

However others *are *scared of what could happen, as it’s a reasonable possibility- it’s happened before and there’s nothing to stop it from happening again.

But hell, there are dudes living on the slopes of active volcanoes that seem to be able to ignore the rumblings.

So we have people who are simultaneously living in fear but happy to be living in fear. Or maybe they are living in fear but just don’t know it and believe they are happy.

[Grossbottom]

This thread is going places.

[El_Kabong]

I’m beginning to suspect that DrDeth is not a doctor at all.

[ASAKMOTSD]

@El_Kabong

I’m beginning to suspect that DrDeth is not a doctor at all.

I think DrDeth is actually a CPA

[El_Kabong]

@ASAKMOTSD

I think DrDeth is actually a CPA

OK, I guess CPADeth didn’t have the right ring to it.

[Tracy_Lord]

He refers to “us dudes” (and is irritatingly sexist) in the Cite? thread.

Unless she’s LYING.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Wow. Just wow. He managed to argue against his own original point.

[Richard_Parker]

It is a mistake to think that Hong Kong residents are subject to extreme political persecution. But it is also a mistake to suggest that Hong Kong is as free as a western democracy.

The biggest problem with this position is the lack of political rights for Hong Kong residents. Every free country now offers its citizens direct popular elections of its chief executive, and allows voting for all of the ruling legislature. The only direct vote allowed for Hong Kong residents is the election of half of the seats in the legislature. That’s a 19th century version of freedom. While Hong Kong residents have been petitioning for democratic elections of local government officials for years, and Beijing has said they won’t allow this for at least a decade, and then only if Beijing approves the candidates. And, of course, the government of Beijing making decisions about the governance of Hong Kong is not democratic.

The notion that this anti-democratic political structure wouldn’t bleed into other political rights is naive. It leads to things like denying visas to pro-democracy agitators (as documented during the pre-Olympic torch ceremonies). I know two colleagues who have been subjected to such restrictions–especially the labor organizers and people involved in trying to reform the sex trade in HK. That is by no means the level of persecution that DrDeth seems to be claiming, but let’s not overstate the political freedom present in Hong Kong.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@Richard_Parker

Every free country now offers its citizens direct popular elections of its chief executive…

That will be news to citizens of the United States or to those of many parliamentary democracies…

[sailor]

@Richard_Parker

It is a mistake to think that Hong Kong residents are subject to extreme political persecution. But it is also a mistake to suggest that Hong Kong is as free as a western democracy.

That would be a worthwhile point for the original thread which prompted this one and I would be glad to constinue the discussion there. I will just note that Hong Kong people have more democracy now than under British rule.

Thios thread is about Dr. Deth and how he maintains assertions which are contrary to what knowledgeable people say and how he mainstains such things without any supporting evidence.

If you are going to argue that there is political persecution in Hong Kong you should be able to cite some examples. DrDeth is unable to provide any evidence and yet stubbornly continues to maintain the same assertions. That is the object of this thread.

I have seen DrDeth do this on several ocassions. It seems he has a very limited reasoning ability and I suppose there may not be any remedy to that but he should learn to stay in the shallow end of the pool and not venture out of his depth. In this case he is clearly out of his depth.

[Richard_Parker]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

That will be news to citizens of the United States or to those of many parliamentary democracies…

A silly misstatement on my part. The larger point remains that chief executives are democratically elected in western nations, as are their legislatures.

---

Sailor, fair enough.

[Indistinguishable]

@sailor

Thios thread is about Dr. Deth and how he maintains assertions which are contrary to what knowledgeable people say and how he mainstains such things without any supporting evidence.

…
DrDeth is unable to provide any evidence and yet stubbornly continues to maintain the same assertions. That is the object of this thread.

I have seen DrDeth do this on several ocassions. It seems he has a very limited reasoning ability and I suppose there may not be any remedy to that but he should learn to stay in the shallow end of the pool and not venture out of his depth. In this case he is clearly out of his depth.

More grist for the mill (DrDeth stubbornly maintains in GQ that it is illegal in the U.S. to accept Euros but not dollars in some offer (because only dollars are “legal tender”), but never produces a lick of evidence [stronger than “My brother told me so”] to support this claim, even after everyone else calls him on his shit. Indeed, even after he insists that a certain web-search will readily produce cites supporting him, he refuses to actually present an example of such a cite. Eventually, still having acknowledged nothing, he just turns on his heels and leaves)

[sailor]

@Cervaise

Man, woman, DrDeth is a chronic and longstanding dumbass.

Yup, nothing has changed.

It is frustrating to deal with someone so immune to reason or facts.

[Blake]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Wow. Just wow. He managed to argue against his own original point.

That’s normal.