Hoops: what are the rules about setting picks?

The Game Room
1

In my twice-a-week 3-on-3 half-court basketball game, we’ve been arguing rules a lot lately, and this one bugs me, because at age 56, I no longer have the leaping ability, the endurance, the physical reflexes, etc. I used to have, and sometimes it seems my entire contribution has been reduced to setting killer picks, which I love to do. But last week, everyone got pissy and started calling all sorts of fouls that we usually ignore, and I got called for setting a moving pick.

I didn’t dispute that I do that once in a while, mostly through clumsiness and ineptitude, not design, but the interesting, unsettled part of this discussion concerned whether WHEN I WASN’T being clumsy or inept, I was setting a moving pick. Help us settle this issue before WWIII breaks out next week:

I maintained that as long as both of my feet were solidly planted, and I wasn’t grabbing someone with my hands or sticking out my arms, I was settling a good pick. The guy who said I was fouling when setting picks said that I was “leaning” too much. I maintained that it was perfectly cromulent to lean (putting most of my weight on one foot and making the defender I was trying to pick go just a bit further around my body to get to the guy he was supposed to be guarding) as long as I had both feet still (with one heel raised but the ball of that foot stable). He said, “No, you can’t lean so much,” and I maintained that “so much” was measured by whether that foot left the ground–everything up to that point was legal, I argued, but if I leaned so much that foot budged an inch or lifted off the court, then that would be a foul.

“Haven’t you ever seen an NBA game? They call a moving pick when the dude has both feet planted but he leans his torso too far into someone’s way.”

Me; “I’ve seen thousands of NBA games, and that’s total bullshit. It’s called a moving pick for a reason–the guy has to be moving his feet.”

Him: “Horseshit.”

Me: “Your mother.”

at which point the conversation began to get personal. It’s all in good fun (though one guy did storm off the floor, not about me and my picks, though.) So can someone cite the rule book on this, or link to an illustration of some pro player being called for “leaning” with both feet on the ground? Frankly it sounds crazy to me, that in an NBA game where players don’t get called for grabbing someone’s arm as long as it’s not gross and blatent, that a ref would try to measure an excessive amount of leaning one’s torso, but this guy does watch a lot of basketball and is usually honest and reliable (though he also routinely takes about 12 steps driving to the hoop and then says “Travelling? Not me, I took 1 or 2 steps, that’s all.”) Can someone help me settle this, with either a theoretical or practical discussion of legal and illegal picks? Thanks.

2

here you go,you cannot lean your body into someone even if your standing still,this is a moving pick with out moving…even if your planted you cant lean your body…thats a no no…

3

Cite? How much is too much? What, are refs supposed to measure people’s spines to make sure they are perpendicular to the floor?

4

example,your standing still,the path of you standing still is what is called your right to that area ,when you try to change to go out of the way of your area regardless if your standing still this is amoving pick,you did not give the other person his right of way,now if he came in your area of standing still that is agood pic but once you try to impede outside of that area by leaning outside of your shoulders standing naturally thats a moving pic

5

another example,just like in football off sides my feet are planted but my body moves into the neutral zone,think of it that way,it’s a penalty

6

Gypsybets - do you have a cite?

7

yeah, I really like one,too–not saying I’m right and you’re wrong, but I don’t understand how that would be enforced–it’s a judgment call that occurs ten times on every offensive play, and there have to be clear limits (that you may push up against and yet not break)–what I’d like to know is exactly at which point a good pick becomes a moving pick. Obviously, every player who sets a pick is not holding his spine 90 degrees from the floor at all times.

8

It’s a matter of contact. You must be still before contact is made, and during that contact you must remain still. So if you have initially set a good screen, you have established your right to that space, however the defender has the right to maneuver around you without further impediment, i.e. you leaning into them as they attempt to pass you.

Cite.

9

IMO, your entire body needs to be set and not moving, not just your feet.

Here’s a more-or-less relevant cite http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_a.html?nav=ArticleList

But the real issue isn’t what the NBA rules say (which is of course different from how things are actually called, in the NBA particularly), but rather what the accepted standards for your game are. You all have to play together and enjoy it, so you all need to find a standard you agree on, rather than trying to prove each other wrong.
I’d probably argue that a game with 56 year olds playing should probably try to err on the side of less contact, but it’s up to you all.

10

I’m honestly surprised that you say you watch the NBA and haven’t seen this called. It isn’t exactly a call made 100% of the time (and in the NBA, no rule is sacrosanct), but it happens often enough. I would just say to screen so that you don’t have to lean in order to impede a defender from staying on the ball.

And also, good for you for screening willingly. I wish I played with more people like you (excepting the no good rotten cheater part, of course). Your teammates owe you a beer.

11

It’s true that most of my NBA viewing of thousands of games is deeply rooted in the Mesozoic Era (is there a better matchup than Gus Johnson and Dave Debusherre?) but I watch an occasional game now, just not with the diligence of my youth. What I’m mostly aware of is the gross fouling that I see that is rarely if ever called. and now that that I know that it’s a violation, I’ll stop shifting my planted body as a play develops, but presumably I can still set up with my weight off-center, and keep it there during the screen? Or am I risking a foul if I dont set up straight and tall? (Well, as tall as I can get–my entire game at this point consists of setting picks and being six feet tall–beyond that, I got nothin’.) I need to set shorter picks (in duration of time) anyway–I’m spending too much time standing in place, though I wish my teammates would take advantage of my picks more often, too. Half the time, I’ve got their defenders screened effectively, and even if they have a strong move to the hoop and a pathway, my teammates often choose not to so much as juke their defender into me to give them an extra step for a jump shot. Oh, well…

12

Without a definitive cite, I think you have to screen standing straight up as possible. It may be legal for you to “set up” with your torso angled outwards and leaning to one side, but you’re risking needless fouls if you haven’t established that position long enough and the defender collides into you as you’re leaning (and you risk not being able to stand still). It can be completely avoided if you just take a half step closer to the defender and a half step towards your teammate for a perfect seal. A good screen should force your teammate to brush your shoulder with his. Sorry if that’s patronizing, I imagine you’ve been playing a lot longer than I have.

Until recently I had a casual weekly 3v3 ball game with friends for years. My friend’s father is just around your age and he’s still an incredibly effective player, even though he’s short and slow as molasses. He’s mostly a screener too, but he has a deadly hook and scoop, as well as a sniper’s set shot.

Nothing wrong with using a screen as an opening for a jumper. I did that so much in our games and with such effectiveness that people threatened to stop playing if I didn’t start doing other stuff. :smiley: You should roll off your screen and set up for a quick drive or jump shot of your own . 3v3 was all about a good two man game in our games. And if they don’t feed you, get on their case for being ball hogs. Punks.

13

Yeah, that’s a great play I don’t do enough of–and the guys I play with (some of them) are pretty unselfish and are constantly expecting me to break toward the hoop. But setting a pick means I can stand still for a second and catch my breath, so I’m often tempted to stand there too long and take in some delicious air for a extra moment. My wind is a lot better since I’ve started playing regularly again, and Im going to have to make myself budge my butt a little more.