Hope You Enjoyed Jail, Overaggressive Security Pipsqueak

You rock, tlw. And congrats on the pregnancy, by the way. It sounds as if no damage to the baby was done (they’re wonderfully well protected in there — my oldest survived a car wreck when I was 20 weeks along with no ill effects. I can sympatize with the no-pain-killers-but-regular-strength-tylenol bit, though.)

May I ask what martial arts discipline(s) you’ve studied? I’m taking Tae Kwon Do now, with no delusions that it’s going to make me a kick-ass Bruce Lee type, but I am hoping that the repetition of basic self-defense moves in response to certain attacks will become reflexive to me, as it appears it did in you.

I think Billdo made the most telling point of all — If you were the one who had the legitimate security card to swipe, you were obviously an employee in good standing. What the hell did he think he was doing in assaulting a valid employee?

Kudos to the cops as well, for taking it as seriously as it deserved to have been taken.

My guess? They want to be in charge, and terrorize others. Usually they are such losers that legitimate law enforcement and military screen them out as being too unstable to handle the job, so they settle for another field that lets them carry a gun and be in charge.

As for kicking him in the cojones ---- Had you done it in the first round, I think it would have been gratuitous. Had he come after you again, that would have been a whole 'nother story.

I did indeed read all of your post, but was puzzled by the accusatory tone you took towards tlw. You acknowledged that she was in the right to defend herself against the security guard, but then spent the majority of your post lecturing her about how she was in the wrong.

And perhaps I did indeed misinterpret your post (which I don’t think warrants the rolleyes and you calling me “slow,”), but your words:

piqued my curiousity. “Stringent security policies” like making people flash their badge at the door, or the stringent security policies like the guard going after anyone who fails to do that? In that case, were you saying that because tlw used her badge to get her and her co-worker in, “more stringent security policies” are put in place?

Also, I’m pretty sure tlw acknowledged that she was in the wrong, and even said the majority of her co-workers do not always follow the rules. The whole thing seems kind of like, “Duh, she knows she was wrong, but why the fuck should she get beaten up because of it?”

:hijack: Good luck with the pregnancy, tlw! Will we be privy to the birth like we were last time? :wink:

[tlw], would you mind if I worshipped you quietly?

A little sidetrack here: This is an unfair generalization, and is no different than saying black people are lazy, Jews are cheap, Hispanics are thieves, or what have you. I’ve heard of plenty of instances of big guys misusing authority as well. It would be much less bigoted to say that a security guard manhandled a woman, and he happened to be short, o.k.?

BTW, it’s hard to type with my right hand stuck in my jacket.:wink:

I should be fair and clear – I’m calling him a pipsqueak, but he’s not short. He’s just a mental midget. He’s certainly taller than I am, for sure. I suppose “pipsqueak” wasn’t the right word given its height connotations, but its the best word I can think of for this guy that’s not profane.

And ZiggyB, I didn’t violate a policy. Our corporate security works on our behalf. They don’t dictate policy, they follow and enforce policies given to them by those of us who run the company. All of the hoo-ha about the “tailgating” practice has come from our security people who somehow seem to think that they are incapable of adequately doing their jobs if we persist in this oh-so-terribly dangerous behavior. Clearly we aren’t opening secure areas to strangers or unauthorized guests, but they’re complaining nevertheless.

Please understand that if we were to follow the demands of our security company, the process of three people passing through a door would take close to 45 seconds (depending on the door) because many of our internal doors are oversized, heavy doors with a very slow closing time. They’re on pneumatics that I know that I personally cannot force to close any faster than they do, the doors are simply too large and the pneumatics too strong for the doors to be quickly pulled shut. The doors must be fully closed and the electronic locks re-engaged before another security badge can be scanned and the door re-opened. The slowness of the door closing was intentional; often our scientific staffers are moving through the facility carrying large, cumbersome equipment through those doors and that lag allows them time to manuever.

Please also understand, that as I said, there are frequent times (twice each day, on average) when entire workgroups of 10-14 people move en masse through multiple sets of these doors. Security has indicated that they feel that it is not in our best interests for those groups of 14 people to pass through those doors without individual badging. The expectation is simply beyond ridiculous – remember, these are people who are employees who work together every day, and had to have security clearance to get to the areas in question to begin with. The only reason for individual badging in such cases is to monitor each person’s movements through analyzing which badge hit which scanner at which time.

And that’s not just speculation. The security company has never been asked to gather metrics on security badge usage or employee movements, but they do. They say that they use the information in aggregate form to create “movement and usage profiles” but since our badges are personally identifying, there is considerable question as to what they are doing with the data. One excuse they’ve used is that they want to know if any doors need “additional security oversight” but all of our doors are badge-entry only and have surveillance cameras and alarms on them, so short of placing guards at our internal doors that we’ve already had to have a badge to get to, there is no further oversight for them to provide.

The more I think on it, the more inclined I feel to bring significant pressure to bear for an investigation as to what authority the security company has to record the data that it has, and if necessary, revamp the system entirely in order to bring an end to the practice. It’s bothering me the more that I think about it.

Get a new security company. One who is more concerned with actual security than with make-work.

Because legitimate law enforcement agencies weed out people like this.

Had I said that short people all/generally/frequently suffer Napoleon Complex, you’d be right. Generally, the claim is jocosely made only for those short people who demonstrate a need to impress people with their power, not all short people. Since Napoleon Complex is not (to my knowledge) an actual disorder that can be found in the DSM-IV, I’d have thought that my quip would have been seen for the smart-ass reply that was intended.

If it came across as serious, I retract it.

No, she pushed him away a defensive manuever on her part. No assault.

BTW IANAL, Bricker?

No, it’s because the people in charge are somewhere on the ‘incompetent’ to ‘in error’ line that any security policy more stringent than needed goes into place. Implementing absurd security policies that people will simply ignore (Like ‘you must spend 15 minutes getting your department to their department meeting because of the door’) is a very bad practice, because it results not in greater security but in contempt for your policies. Unless you’ve either got the authority and willingness to make people follow your policies or can convince them that the policies are useful, if you keep making more and more restrictive policies then people will just ignore them more and more.

And Tony Montana, read your the material you quoted in your post, as the mateiral you quoted explicity says that pushing him away was not assault so arguing that it was not assault is agreeing with ZiggyB.

I think what Ziggy meant was that, once she had pushed him away (he had lost his balance, gone into a table, etc.), if she had then put the boot in his crotch, she might have been guilty of assault.

tlw, you showed incredible composure in the face of this assault. Good show.

carrot
duh, I need to work on this “reading comprehension” thing they speak of…

Thank you for the retraction. My acknowledgements to the OP for clarifying her use of the word “pipsqueak”.

At risk of a slight hijack – if a short person, either male or female, acts with the same leadership qualities as a tall, beefy man in a CEO position, then people tend to snicker.

The security guard was a jerk, and I’m not talking about him or his type. In this post I’m referring to the “normal” exercise of power or aggressiveness that some jobs require in order to be successful.

People commonly joke about a short man who acts with confidence and power. “Napoleon complex” is an easy quip. My thesis: if precisely the same behaviors were shown by a tall man, no one would question “why he feels the need to be that way”. In fact, CEOs who act like that (most of whom are tall, and I can find a study if you really want a cite), are admired. The difference is in the eye the beholder.

What a jackass! Tracey, glad you’re getting better and congrats on the pending arrival!
Also, I seem to recall you saying you once taught at La Roche college? Did you know Dr. Brett and Dr. Jourin?

No, actually I was giving you the benefit of the doubt on that; I looked it up in the dictionary, and “pipsqueak” doesn’t necessarily mean a person who’s small in stature. What I objected to was tomndebb’s quip about “Napolean Complex”, which does imply that the guy would be short. And I see from the later post that tomndebb only said it in jest anyway. It’s just that the idea does frequently get tossed around by people who are serious. Sorry if I got the wrong idea.

BTW, sorry to hear about your experience, and I’m glad you were able to get some action taken against this guy.

Maybe I’m just overly cynical, but I can’t help but wonder if this is why he went after you rather than your assistant (assuming that your assistant is of significantly lighter complexion).

Anyway, you have my sympathies, and I’m also impressed by how well you handled the situation.

You know, something funny about this:

and

Which says to me that the ass didn’t even follow the policy he was trying to enforce. I realize this is trivial compared to his later actions, it just struck me funny.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tlw, I’d just like to add (as a "me-too"ism) that since the guard grabbed you hard enough for your self-defense reflexes to kick in, he deserved everything he got. I’ve had those reflexes snap on – in class – so I know that at that point things happen faster than thought.

And since you took substantial injuries, I hope you press charges. Whatever the security policy on tail-gating might be, I’m sure it doesn’t direct the guard to grab anybody who isn’t presenting a threat of immediate harm.

And I agree with you about what the security company might be doing with all the door access records. Like any good privacy-related policy, they need to be clear and accurate about what they’re doing with all that data.

tlw, first of all, let me say that I agree that your reaction was not only understandable, but appropriate. Technically, he committed assualt the second he touched you. An “Excuse me, ma’am” on his part would have been the way to handle it when he thought you were tailgating.

That being said, I work for a company that is often consulted on corporate security, especially for computer networks. A company will spend millions setting up a complex security system. We then test the system to see if we can hack into the network. So far, we’ve been able to hack into every company who’s consulted wilth us within minutes. And we’re talking major global corporations. The three most common culprits are (in order of frequency):

  1. “Rememberable” passwords, such as your birthdate, aniversary, son’s name, etc.

  2. People who write their passwords down and leave them near their computer (always look under the computer; you’ll often find a Post-It note with the password).

  3. The number one security breach we’ve found is tailgating. As you said, it’s a pain in the butt to wait for the door to close and lock, then swipe your card. Also, it seems rude to shut the door in someone’s face, even a stranger without a security badge. I’ve always been able to “break into” a building (while testing security), by hanging around a door until someone came in. Often, they would hold the door for me.

On the second issue, where do security companies get the losers they hire, have you checked out the want ads for these companies? They usually go something like this: “Wanted: Armed security guard. Must be certified. $6/hour.”

Let’s see . . . I can work at McDonald’s, or I can wear a nifty uniform and carry a gun . . .

I really hope that this is not considered a hijack, but PoorYoric has raised some issues that I find fascinating.

As you seem to be intimately involved in this field, perhaps you can explain how it is that a company is willing to spend millions on setting up security (including, I assume, healthy consulting fees and the like) but they are suddenly cheap when it comes to paying the labor that is involved in implementing that system. Seems a lot like securing your house with a hair across the door so that you can tell if anyone has been it. Why not hire well-paid and trained professionals?