Horse Question

Factual Questions
1

I realize this isn’t a horse-related message board, but I know there are horse owners/members and I thought I would give it a shot.

I am relatively new to horse ownership and learn something new every time I am with them. Since the winters here in Montana are cold and long there isn’t much opportunity for trail riding. The ground outside is icy and accidents are bound to happen.

So I have been using an indoor arena, which has soft ground that is easy on their feet (and me should I happen to fall off). When I finish working them I usually let them run loose in the arena. When they first go in they start sniffing the ground, walk in a circle, and then drop down and roll. I’ve been told this is normal horse behavior and they seem to do it every chance they get. My horse even dropped down and rolled while I was on his back once… but I digress.

My question is why do they sniff the ground and walk in a tight circle before they drop down? I’ve seen dogs exhibit the same behavior, but they aren’t closely related to horses as far as I know. Any ideas? Speculation welcome!

2

*** obligatory Friday night bump :slight_smile: ***

3

When my horse does this, it looks as though she’s checking out the area to make sure it’s fit to roll in - no rocks or nasty stuff like that (mud and poo are OK, though).

If you ever again sense that your horse if getting ready to drop and roll while you’re on his back, push him forward, hard. He needs to understand that he does not roll when he’s working, ever. It’s a good way for you to get hurt (it’s not good for the saddle, either).

4

Thanks cwthree. It only happened once, when we were in the indoor arena. I didn’t see it coming and was taken completely by surprise. I had been working on him standing still for longer and longer periods of time since he likes to start walking on his own. When he dropped down on this front legs I was able to jump off and he did a 1/4 roll and jumped right up. No damage to the rider or the saddle… but I wasn’t expecting it to happen (I thought horses were smarter than that). Next time I will take your advice.

5

He’s just checking out the dirt for the most optimum spot for rolling. It might all just seem like dirt to you but horses have preferences in these things. Maybe you’ve watched them graze in the summer and selecting particular blades of grass while avoiding others.

Seconded that you must not ever allow your horse to attempt to roll with a rider. You could get killed or seriously maimed. If he sniffs and paws at the ground when you’re riding, even if you’re just standing around at the time (especially then), give him a good hard boot in the ribs. Smarter doesn’t enter into it. He had checked out and decided you were an unimportant part of his day.

6

Thanks Hello Again. He didn’t paw or sniff (that I noticed) and just dropped down on his front legs. If I had kicked him while he was going down he might have stood right back up… or begin to violently roll… Jumping off seemed like the smart move at the time. If I sense he is going to drop again I will make sure he doesn’t get a second chance to roll with me on his back.

7

Oh I’m sure that you did the right thing by jumping off - by the time you noticed it, he was down. With experience, things won’t seem to happen so very fast. I remember when I learned to jump, my instructor was like, don’t forget to do x,y,z,p,d,q and I thought “when? the jump happens in an instant” but now with experience it feels like I have as much time as I need to do all sorts of things while the horse is in mid-air.

You’ll also develop awareness of your particular horse’s habits and quirks, as well as their body language, and so you’ll get a LOT more warning about what they’re going to do.

Just make sure that whenever your horse does something bad - even if you get scared or intimidated - you never just stop working immediately afterwards. That is a reward and will encourage him to repeat the behavior. Make him work on your terms, even if that just means walking him once around the ring before you dismount or even getting off and leading him round the ring if you aren’t feeling safe.

Horses are basically lazy and you never want him to think he can end the work by misbehaving. Horses will test you and see what you will and won’t accept (especially those wise souls who are beginner safe). The one exception is if you actually get angry and start to feel out of control. In that case, separate yourself safely until you feel calm again.

On the flip side, be free with immediate rewards and encouragement when the horse tries do as you say, even if he doesn’t get it 100% right. You my not feel much like a trainer right now, but every time you work the horse, you are training him. You are establishing a pattern of behavior.

You might consider some basic “clicker training” also known as operant conditioning as something to try in the winter months. The best thing about it is it “trains the trainer” - it will focus you on your horse’s behaviors and reactions, at the same time it focuses the horse on you and what you want. One winter in Michigan, when it got so cold the indoor arena froze, I tried it and I learned a lot from the experience - even though the only thing I taught my horse to do was touch her nose to a target.

Working with horses is amazing, infuriating, fun, frustrating, inspiring, and confounding, all by turns and even in the same 15 minutes! Good luck!

8

I am familiar with operant training from my years of training dolphins, orcas and sea lions, but for some reason I thought it would only work for carnivores. :smack: Now I know better.

Thanks for the sage advice. When my horse rolled on me I immediately picked myself up, dusted myself off and mounted him. I then forced him to walk-trot-lope around the arena. He didn’t try it again for the rest of the session.

I don’t normally believe in punishing a horse unless it puts a human in danger, and would much rather reward him when he does well with a pat or a treat.

There’s a lot I need to learn about training horses and I appreciate any advice I can get from those more experienced than I am.

9

  1. Horses roll because that’s about the only way they have to relieve an itchy back. And after a work session, with a blanket & saddle, their back will be itchy. A good rub with a rubber curry right then will be greatly appreciated by your horse! Before they roll, they will usually walk around inspecting the ground to see that it’s safe to roll (and also checking that their are no predators lurking around to attack them – horses have a very wide range of vision).

  2. You did the right thing in getting off when your horse rolled. You would also have been right in making a fuss about it – yelling at him, pulling at the reins, whapping him with your crop, etc. – generally making it clear that you are the boss, and he doesn’t get to roll until you allow it. (Seems like what’s not clear to your horse is the “you are the boss” part.) For the future, the advice to prevent this by moving him forward, and working harder is right on.

Sounds like you are having fun!

10

If being stepped on occasionally and almost rolled on is considered fun it’s been a blast! :slight_smile:

I wish I had grown up on a ranch and learned to ride when I was 10 like most of the cowboys around here and I would learned all this stuff by now. I’m now learning it the hard way I guess…

11

I would think with all that experience in animal training, you’ll be an excellent horseman given some time. I’ve had horses to work cattle, but now I’m out of cattle and down to three horses. Still love a good ride a couple of times a week.

Interesting note:

Last summer I toured the King Ranch. One of the tour stops was with an old, retired cowboy that had been born on the ranch and worked there his entire life. He started working cattle from horseback at age nine. He said they had one rule for horsemen at the King Ranch: “If you fall off a horse, you are fired on the spot.” It didn’t matter what the circumstance, breaking new horses, trying to stop a stampede, it didn’t matter. Come off and you’re fired.

After his demonstration was over, I eased up to him on the side and asked if he’d really rode horses there for over 50 years and never fallen off. He looked around to be sure we couldn’t be overheard and said “Never when anybody else saw it”.

12

Agree with making a fuss, but disagree on pulling the reins. Unless you’re using a “bitless bridle”, the reins are attached to the bit, which is in contact with some very sensitive parts of the horse’s mouth. A better option would be to pull on the cheek strap of the bridle, if you can get to it quickly, as all corrections must follow swiftly on the heels of misbehavior.

Hitting an equine on the shoulder is okay, as horses “punch” each other there to show annoyance, so it’s a message they understand. I used to yell, “bad!” and swat/punch my donkey on the shoulder when he got careless and crowded my “space” or started slinging his foot around during hoof cleaning. I’m a tiny thing, so I couldn’t hit him hard, but he got the idea.

13

Some members here are horses?

14

Well…maybe half horse anyway.
Not sayin’ which half…

I keed, I keed!