Not to pile on but - antibiotics are not all interchangeable. For example - an antibiotic intended for a Urinary Tract Infection may not be effective for a Sinus Infection, etc. So, the choice to bum random antibiotics from friends/relatives is unwise choice #23,784.
Carry on.
All in all, this is a great example of why universal health care is cheaper for the country as a whole. If the OP had basic healthcare covered, he would have gone to a doctors office, and gotten a proper prescription. This would have cost the taxpayer a few hundred dollars.
Instead, he ended up going to emergency, where he ended up costing the taxpayer tens of thousands of dollars.
This is where much of the savings occur in universal healthcare; preventative medicine.
Yes, he could have made better decisions at various points. Yes, his lifestyle may have contributed to his illness. Yes, yes, yes. However, people are not all perfect decision making machines. Sometimes they make bad choices. Actually, people make bad choices rather frequently. As a society, I don’t think we should sentence someone to a painful untreated illness because of poor choices. Especially when it costs us (society) a lot more in the long run.
Universal Health care encourages healthier choices. A visit to a doctor would have given the OP the proper antibiotics. The doctor may have helped him with his smoking addiction. Perhaps given advice about cutting down on the drinking.
So you could’ve gone to a walk-in clinic for less than 1/2 your monthly alcohol budget, or the cost of about 15 packs of cigarettes, but instead you go to an ER after you let your condition deteriorate to the point where you thought you were dying. You were apparently eligible for some charitable medical services, but you didn’t bother to inquire until after you cost the taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars. As a taxpayer, I thank you for wasting my hard-earned money.
StG
But you can’t go to a walk-in clinic unless you pay up front. (At least that’s true with the ones I’ve visited locally.) The last time I went, it cost $95 to walk in the door. Of course, then you have to pay for the meds, which may be $4 at WalMart but can just as easily be $40 or $140. And while it may be true that the cost could have been covered by what he spent on booze last week, it’s not like that money is in the bank this week when he’s sick, so the point isn’t all that relevant.
I understand the frustration of looking in and seeing how someone is painting himself in a corner by making poor choices. But damn…
I also understand the frustration of being the one painted into that corner and it being too late to remedy it in time to save yourself. He’s made changes, it sounds like, and I think that in itself deserves a little respect.
Also, I don’t know if it was the case for the OP, but I know that here, if you qualify for services but don’t apply until after your hospitalization, they will pay your bills retroactively. Of course that money still comes from somewhere, but at least some of that tax money has to come from the working poor, I’d think.
So glad I live in Canada and don’t have to hear about what a horrible person I am because I can’t afford health insurance.
Come on now all you hard working, middle aged American’s who can’t afford health insurance, just stop wasting everyone’s money and go to the doctor the instant something is wrong with you. Can’t afford to go to the doctor, well better pull up your boot straps, not eat for a week and use that money for the doctor’s appointment.
OP, I am glad you were able to get the help that saved your life and won’t now have to make medical payments on it till the day you die.
That’s just it though. Some of us have gone through our lives so far with our #1 priority to be to make the right choice in the situation, so we can provide for our families, not be a drain on society, and generally put back more than we took.
It’s infuriating to hear about this dumb-shit who has apparently struck out at every decision making at-bat, whine about how horrible the country is because we won’t also pay for his bad luck.
I’d be a lot more inclined to be sympathetic for say… a graduate student making $11 an hour who can’t afford insurance; been there, done that.
But being 46, making 11 dollars an hour, having 3 kids and drinking something like 5 drinks of rum a night on average, it’s awful hard to drum up sympathy- that points at a pattern of poor decision making that I for one, don’t want to subsidize.
I get what you’re saying re: the cost of booze, although I’m not sure the OP has indicated that he’s made wrong decisions all along–as I mentioned, a single divorce can cut your income in half or more. (On review, I think you are referring to the unprescribed meds issue as well–yes, a bad choice, but not necessarily an intentional one.) I’m considering the more overreaching issue of his getting by on a bare-bones budget.
But still…I’m 46, raising 2 kids on maybe $14.00/hour (although I don’t work quite full time). I work two jobs, raise my kids as a single parent, own a house (mortgaged) and a paid-for car, rarely drink, budget every dime I make and try to make good decisions about money and health. I do all the things I’m supposed to do, and I spend a LOT of time figuring out how to cut costs and manage my bills.
And I still can’t afford health insurance. If pushed to the wall by bronchitis or something severe, I can juggle bills and take myself to Promptcare, but then my budget is super-screwed for the rest of the month, or the following six months.
Of course it’s a bad idea to spend a chunk of money on booze or any of a million luxury things, but being in the position I am, I don’t find many people being a lot more sympathetic. If I’d written this post, I predict that there would still be people finding fault with my lifestyle and haranguing me about being a drain on society as well. So I guess that makes me a little more sympathetic. I have so many friends who are in just the boat I am. We struggle every day and do our best, but it’s not always enough. It’s just not as simple as saying “Bad decision makers!” every time.
But I do get your point. Hopefully I’m explaining this well enough that people get mine as well. It’s really disheartening sometimes to be in this position. 
Bump, you’ve been here for a long time. Long enough to know that if you want to call other posters names, you do it in the Pit.
This is a warning for you, do not insult others in this forum.
I agree that there was a lot of poor decisions made, but I think the point that some are trying to make is that people are going to make bad decisions whether we like it or not. The question then becomes whether we want to subsidize the couple hundred on the front end or the tens of thousands on the back end. Or, if you prefer, let people who make bad decisions die. Those are pretty much our only options.
Here’s the problem, bump: under our current system you wind up paying in the end. Yes, yes, I know you want to slap people upside the head sometimes and yell “STUPID!” in their ear but over the long haul, no matter how good that might make you feel short term, it may not be the best solution long term.
Look at the current situation. Because we, as a society, weren’t willing to help this guy out with seeing a doctor with what was, presumably, a minor infection to start with, when it might have cost $200 to fix, which would have kept him working and paying taxes and child support (in other words, contributing to society on some level) we say, essentially “You made bad choices. Sucks to be you. Suffer for your mistakes.” So, some time later, with the infection now raging, and his liver showing signs of serious dysfunction, society deems him finally sick enough to help, admits him to the hospital, and spends tens of thousands of dollars to solve the problem. Meanwhile, because he’s gotten so sick he’s out of work, presumably no longer able to afford child support, and now drawing on food stamps (costing yet more money to society), and no longer paying taxes.
Great. **We took a $200 problem and turned it into a $20,000 (or more) problem **and also diminished the ability of a citizen to contribute to society. We paid a 100 times more than we would have if we had done something about this earlier, AND he’s worse off than before he got sick and will probably take some considerable time just to get back where he was, much less improve himself.
And you say the OP was stupid, that *he *made bad choices? Are you *kidding *me?
If, in the end, we are going to pay for this problem anyway, doesn’t it make MORE sense to pay for it EARLY, when the cost is two orders of magnitude LESS EXPENSIVE?
THAT is the rational for universal health care. Not that people “deserve” it, or “pay their fair share”, or whatever gripe people have today about it. It’s because it frickin’ costs less to take care of this stuff early. Is it really THAT hard to understand?
Sure, if tomorrow we went to UHC we’d see a sudden uptick and an initial increased cost… but that’s because of all the people like the OP who could suddenly afford to go to the doctor and get their “minor” problems dealt with BEFORE they become 20,000 (or worse) problems. That means down the road you save a crapload of money because people get their infected teeth fixed rather than winding up in the hospital with a sick liver AND an antibiotic resistant infection.
I’m getting tired of greedy people who firmly assert that they don’t want one more penny going to the losers in society. Guess what - that attitude is going to cost them more in the long run than just accepting not everyone is as perfect as they are.
We didn’t. One person making poor choices did. As I said before, I understand this happens and I support it on an economic basis. But I don’t take responsibility for how his disease progressed. He had enough cash to blow ~200 bucks a month on booze and cigarettes. That means he had enough cash to go to a doctor and get a cheap course of antibiotics. That was his choice. He chose to regularly get shitfaced over health care.
I do agree with the sentiment that the OP’s case does not make for a good “poster child” of the universal health care movement. Unfortunately.
Those who are anti-UHC always recapitulate “we all make choices” chorus. As a bed-wetting liberal, I can overlook the decision to have children and form a union that wasn’t meant to last (no one knows what’s going to happen to a relationship). I don’t think most people choose to make low wages, so that’s another pass. But given these hardships and the lack of insurance, then it would be wise not to press your luck by imbibing in alcohol excessively, at the very least. Not only is this an expensive hobby–siphoning off money that could go to health care (maybe not insurance, but at least free/sliding-scale clinic visits), but it’s not good for your health. Which not only affects your life, but the ability to provide for the lives you brought into this world.
So…my well of sympathy is not vast for the OP’s situation.
I didn’t have health insurance for a couple of years after I entered the workforce. It sucked…but you know what? Not having insurance meant being extra cautious. I’ve always had a fear of being caught up a creek without a paddle.
So I guess I feel sorry that you had to suffer through all that because of an inability to go to a dentist and a GP. But in some ways, this “inability” was due to self-induced behaviors by someone old enough to know better. So I wouldn’t whine about what happened to you too loudly. It might set back the cause…or make it worse for people who show up into into the emergency room with alcohol (or pick your self-inflicted abuse of choice) in their systems. Yeah, the dollars and cents should make people care for selfish reasons, but all they see are individual choices. And all they’ll see are the bad ones.
How lovely for you.
Some of us have gone through our adult lives using all our financial, physical, emotional, and familial resources not kill ourselves because we have severe depression.
Some of us have undiagnosed conditions that cause us to self-medicate because we have no idea why we’re in pain, we just know that drinking ourselves unconscious stops the pain for a little while.
Some of us put family members - even SICK family members! - before accumulating wealth and accolades and end up at age 40 without a remarkable career, healthy salary, or benefits of any sort.
Some of us start with the deck stacked against us, and the very mechanism that makes that deck so tall tends to wreck our ability to make the best, most wisest, most prescient decisions on a minute-to-minute basis. Some of us have trouble with even the second-to-second stuff.
But, of course, the fact that you’re completely healthy, strong, employable, and clear-headed enough to make the absolute right choice every single time, must be because you are a morally superior creature.
Except for the part where you lack any semblance of empathy.
Gosh, I want to be just like you. Except human.
The SNL spoof of the GOP debate summed it up: “Good evening, I’m Shepard Smith, and I come from a town full of secrets. I’d like to begin by apologizing for responses by the audience at the previous three debates who booed a soldier, cheered executions and applauded the death of an uninsured man. It was inappropriate. I’d also like to apologize for the late start tonight. There was a six car pile-up on route 20 that burst into flames.” (crowd applauds)
You have three kids and get by with $100 in Child Support?
Let me say this first. I am sympathetic to the “self-medication” thing. Some people self-medicate with food or drugs. Some of us do other things that don’t aren’t as high-risk, but still fall under the “trying to numb the pain” umbrella.
But when you have kids, I’m sorry, you don’t have the right to “self-medicate” yourself into oblivion and expect people to feel sorry for you. Because you’re not putting just your life at risk, but the welfare of your kids. Bad behavior sometimes is just bad behavior, period. We can rationalize it as the result of inner turmoil all day long, but as a responsible adult, it is your job to take a hold of yourself and be all that you can be, for your kids. With or without health care.
Now it turns out that the OP’s illness was not caused directly by alcohol, but it very well could have. If the OP had told a story about how he had ended up driving a car into a wall during a drunk-driving escapade and that’s why he ended up in the hospital for a week, would you still be as sympathetic? If we had universal health care, would it warm the cockles of your heart to know that a person that irresponsible would be able to get coverage, just as easily as if he had been the victim of his escaped?
I’ll be honest and say I wouldn’t have much sympathy or feel good about it, even though I recognize that universal health care means that everyone would get covered, “at fault” or not. And I also know that just because someone has access to health care does not mean they won’t continue to do stupid, “self-medicating” stuff. So I don’t think waving the “self-medication” flag is a good argument for why we need universal health care. It almost sounds like permission to be a nanny state (Do you have more than one drink a day? Yes? That sounds like self-medication, mister! I’m directing you to the psychiatric wing pronto!) The pro-UHC does not need a nanny state-ism charge along with everything else.
Good lord but you guys are harsh. We all make poor decisions in our lives. Some people make more of them than others whether by a personal decision or because of tough circumstances in the first place. We don’t know the whole story but we certainly seem happy to take up a judgemental banner here.
So he makes a paltry $11 an hour? You think he should try to make more? Well, so should we all try to make more money and lo, inflation keeps up with us. Amazing how that works. Over 50 % of the working population will always make less than the average wage. We can’t all be on top no matter how hard we work. Get over yourselves.
/rant 
jon138, I am glad you are feeling better and am glad to hear you knocked off the booze and cigarettes. I gather you recognize what they (you) were doing to yourself. I am also VERY GLAD that we have a medical system that will help at least some of the people who need their services in an emergency. That said, please continue to learn from the situation. You did indeed make some poor choices but at least you were smart enough to get your butt to the ER so your children still have a father and you can pick up your life again. Congratulations, you have another chance.
It’s a huge trend in my area and a lot of others. A “We care about our customers!” antibiotic giveaway. Many chain grocery stores with pharmacies and regular pharmacies have been filling antibiotic prescriptions for free for quite a while now.
Also, many drug companies make a lot of drugs available to people who cannot afford them The income limits are very reasonable.
All debates about UHC aside, the OP really should have tried to see a dentist when this whole thing started.
My boyfriend has had a tooth abscess. We called around to dentists and got a dentist to squeeze him in for a same day appt despite his lack of dental insurance.
The dentist visit was $50. The antibiotics were free.
Maybe we’ve lucked out and found unusually kind-hearted dentists, but it’s been my experience that dentists are usually fairly willing to work with folks who don’t have insurance since so many folks don’t have dental coverage.
Even if you can’t find a private dentist like that, many places have dental schools and/or free dental clinics that offer some limited emergency services.
I’d agree with you, monstro, except, it doesn’t take a responsible adult to make a baby. In a lot of instances, babies are made by irresponsible, broken, sick people who, while technically of adult age, are working with underdeveloped prefrontal cortices, drug damaged amygdalas, and all manner of physical and mental deficiencies.
Handing a sick, damaged person a baby may give them exactly the boot up the ass they need to put aside the crap they’re dealing with and focus on providing for their child (and, in doing so, making their own life better). In most cases, though, what it’s going to do is add yet another immense stressor to their lives, because babies take a shitload of work to care for. Under those circumstances, the person in question is going to need a care a magnitude of order greater than what they were receiving before, just so they don’t damage their own child.
Human beings have sex. Lots and lots and lots of sex. Sex makes babies. Until we ensure that every adult has reliable contraception - to the point that conceiving a child requires an active decision made by both partners and not just a night of drunken fumbling - I’m not going to blame sick people for having kids.
Recognizing self-medication, even under a universal health care system, does not mean sticking the patient in the hoosegow and strapping them down until they detox. It means finding out what the underlying problem is and addressing it with appropriate therapy and medication.
Addiction is a particularly sticky subject because so many people see it as a moral failing whereas I see the evidence for genetic susceptibility, physical and chemical changes to the brain, and significantly increased risk for abuse among specific populations (like, for instance, undiagnosed ADHD). If we would stop criminalizing drug abuse and misuse and start researching it with the same vigor we have cancer and HIV, I think we’d be a hell of a lot better off.