Hostility of middle east towards Israel and the west could lead to all out war

[BrainGlutton]

@sweat209

What. Are you saying Iran hates the US so much do to the revolution.

Or perhaps because of Operation Ajax.

[AK84]

@Bryan_Ekers

No, what they really hate (and cause persistent harm to) is their own populations, which is why Israel and the west are so convenient - blaming them distracts the Iranian and Pakistani people and keeps them from noticing that most of the miseries in their lives are in fact caused by their own governments.

I cannot speak for Iran, but I have never heard any politician or any one in fact in Pakistan blame Israel for anything. Pakistanis generally founded not give two hoots about Israel outside the general, “they are acting wrongly”. And, stop infantalising the whole fucking population.

[Siam_Sam]

I thought WW3 was the Cold War?

[AK84]

@Trinopus

We’re talking about an hypothetical spiraling out of control. Why would Saudi Arabia get involved in a war against Israel? But they have in the past. Why would Iraq or Iran get involved? But they have.

Hell, why would Great Britain have gotten involved (1956?) But they did.

Saudi Arabia is i) in the Middle East and ii) Arab. Pakistan is neither and we have our own rather pressing issues. I do not see any involvement in that affair unless Israels entire establishment loses it’s collective wit and attacks Pakistan first.

[Atakapa]

Israel’s neighbors have united and made multiple attempts to “push them into the sea,” and have ultimately failed with heavy losses each time. Thanks to the Arab Spring, the Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians are all facing internal disorder and governmental strife. I’d imagine that none of them are particularly keen on the idea of taking on a country they couldn’t beat at their strongest when they are significantly weakened and divided.

[Noone_Special]

@Atakapa

Israel’s neighbors have united and made multiple attempts to “push them into the sea,” and have ultimately failed with heavy losses each time. Thanks to the Arab Spring, the Egyptians, Syrians, and Jordanians are all facing internal disorder and governmental strife. I’d imagine that none of them are particularly keen on the idea of taking on a country they couldn’t beat at their strongest when they are significantly weakened and divided.

Not if they want to win… but if the intent is to focus public opinion and awareness away from various internal problems, attacking Israel while beating the war drums against the “Great Enemy” is the Internal Arab Politics equivalent of diverting someone complaining about something, anything by pointing in another direction and exclaiming, “Look! Shiny!!”
The result is that there is no existential threat upon Israel, but having to take incoming fire every time the Arab Dictator du jour is having a bad PR day… Well, it gets old very fast.

[Latro]

@Noone_Special

if the intent is to focus public opinion and awareness away from various internal problems, attacking Israel while beating the war drums against the “Great Enemy” is the Internal Arab Politics equivalent of diverting someone complaining about something, anything by pointing in another direction and exclaiming, “Look! Shiny!!”

There is probably truth in that.
Kind of equivalent to “OMG, Rockets!!” or “Look IRAN!!!”

[Noone_Special]

@Latro

There is probably truth in that.
Kind of equivalent to “OMG, Rockets!!” or “Look IRAN!!!”

You think this isn’t an issue in our upcoming elections…?
Yeah, politicians are all the same, the world over :rolleyes:

Difference being, at least IMNOP (in my non-objective opinion), that the latest skirmish was not engineered or fabricated by the Israeli government. Now, that Hamas may prefer to deal with Netanyahu and the Likud after our elections*, and is therefore delivering a nice diversion Bibi’s way, is certainly not out of the question.
Now, just to convince some rabid Bibi voters of this fact… (that they are being hoodwinked by our worst enemy into voting for “Mr. Security” due to their own knee-jerk reaction to external violence)

• Because they perceive him as weak, and as damaging our relations with the world due to his intransigence

[Boyo_Jim]

@Der_Trihs

Too soft?!…What; should we start importing Middle Easterners and eating them?..

Already happening. Have you seen all of the Middle Eastern restaurants around?

[Inner_Stickler]

@Trinopus

WW3 is pretty comfortably unlikely.

On the other hand, as a culture, we are pretty into trilogies.

[sweat209]

First of all I should say after doing some more reading on the internet it was false to say the middle eat the government and army wants to go to war with Isreal or the west not understanding many countries in middle east are having their own major problems and fighting and many countries like Egypt and Syria the government is having problems with radical parties. .

Now I hear there are some major problems in Egypt and Syria of radical parties that would love to go to war with Isreal and the west and don’t care if 90% people in middle eat are wiped out has their Ideology is to fight to last man .The army in Egypt and Syria have been called to try to stop the radical parties but are having a very hard time .Most of these radical parties are smuggling wepons into Gaza from Egypt and Syria .The government in Egypt is trying to work with Isreal and to wipe out the radical parties. The government in Egypt is still pro Isreal and the west but is now under pressure to not be so pro Isreal and the west and is making problems.

The US is scared that if Egypt and Syria go the middle east will be very violent place . The articles do not say what is casing these radical parties or casing civil war and why the government is having a hard time with these radical parties .

There has been protest now and the past in Pakistan of hostility towards Isreal and the west.

[sweat209]

@Noone_Special

Not if they want to win… but if the intent is to focus public opinion and awareness away from various internal problems, attacking Israel while beating the war drums against the “Great Enemy” is the Internal Arab Politics equivalent of diverting someone complaining about something, anything by pointing in another direction and exclaiming, “Look! Shiny!!”
The result is that there is no existential threat upon Israel, but having to take incoming fire every time the Arab Dictator du jour is having a bad PR day… Well, it gets old very fast.

I’m sure Hamas does not want to fight with Isreal because of economic problems to get people in Gaza to think about Isreal not the economic problems .And if they think there is economic problems now in Gaza it got well much worse.

I was reading that even in Gaza there may be more radical parties coming in from Iran that even Hamas will not be able to control.

[bldysabba]

@AK84

I cannot speak for Iran, but I have never heard any politician or any one in fact in Pakistan blame Israel for anything. Pakistanis generally founded not give two hoots about Israel outside the general, “they are acting wrongly”. And, stop infantalising the whole fucking population.

Living in a bit of a bubble then perhaps? Pakistani newspapers -
(Emphasis added).
Dawn

It is as if no one but India, Israel, America and Britain do any thinking surrounding Pakistan.

Ultimately, it is the conspiracy theory itself, not these countries, that truly prevents Pakistan from presuming its preferred position in the world. Its one consistent attribute is its ability to paralyse progress, and remove any remnant of national responsibility. The conspiracy theory disables Pakistan both domestically and internationally.

Dawn 2

Then, of course, there is the over-arching, ever-present conspiracy that features India, the US and Israel. While they might act in concert or individually, they are the ultimate axis of evil where most Pakistanis are concerned. This narrative is pushed by a galaxy of popular print and TV journalists who mostly write and broadcast in Urdu.

Dawn 3.

BELIEF in conspiracy theories focusing on Pakistan is not only new, it is on the increase judging by the content of public blogs and TV talk shows.
One comes across a staggering number of people who are unwilling to look inward, instead placing all the blame on any combination of the CIA, the Federal Reserve, Mossad, RAW, the US, etc.

Interestingly, these theories are so prevalent that the Pakistani terrorists themselves want to debunk them. AP report in Pakistani newspaper

Lawmakers, media pundits, retired generals and even government officials often hint at suspicions of a ”foreign hand” in the violence, despite there being no evidence and often explicit claims of responsibility by militant groups like the Pakistani Taliban.
…

Ironically, the Pakistani Taliban share Clinton’s dislike of the conspiracy theories but for different reasons.

”Those who are accusing us of working for anyone else’s agenda should ask themselves what they are doing,” Waliur Rehman, the Taliban’s No. 2 commander, told The Associated Press.

”We are neither working for CIA, Mossad, RAW nor any other organization,” he said, referring to the Indian spy agency. ”We work to get the blessing of God.”

Different newspaper. Same stories

We have all heard the following phrases:

Everything is being controlled by America

Hindus and **Israelis are working in tandem to destroy Pakistan **

This is all a Zionist global conspiracy

Blog on the newspaper

Many Pakistanis seem to have this unhealthy obsession with conspiracy theories, especially those with a Zionist twist to them. Shows such as Zaid Hamid’s were the catalyst needed to bring this once fringe ideology to the forefront. My Facebook page is flooded with posts in this regard.

A close relative of mine is a proud Sialkoti and a staunch supporter of the PML-N. He watched with apprehension as Imran Khan’s PTI gained traction which culminated in hundreds of thousands of supporters flocking to jalsas in Lahore and Karachi. However, it was easier for him to believe that Imran Khan was being propped up and financed by a large Jewish consortium than to understand the fact that people are frustrated with the corruption and incompetence of the same old people that have been elected in the past.

“Yay tu pakki Yahoodi party hai!”

(He’s a Jewish collaborator for sure!)
Why stop at Imran Khan? The people who attacked the Sri Lankan cricket team were part of a Jewish conspiracy to end cricket in Pakistan. The people who are blowing up mosques and killing innocent people around the country are also Jewish because Muslims could never kill other Muslims.

A report by a Reuters bureau chief who had to leave the country because of a threat to his life

This, if I may, as an outsider and an observer of Pakistan, is Pakistan’s gaping wound: a collective inability — or unwillingness — to accept responsibility for its internal problems.
Everything is a plot by the **Indians, Americans or Israel. Or all three! ** Militancy, power cuts, corruption, economic stagnation, Osama bin Laden, all of it. I once had Latif Khosa, governor of Punjab, blame power outages on the American invasion of Afghanistan, and not the Pakistan government’s inability to settle the circular debt problem. Zaid Hamid, conspiracist extraordinaire, vowed revenge on the TTP and their “Hindu backers”. Even the match-fixing by the Pakistani cricket team was a set-up by dark forces bent on Pakistan’s destruction.
Goodness! How did Pakistan manage to acquire so many shadowy enemies? In short, it — or rather, the men who run it — invented them.
Anyone with a lick of sense knows the Pakistani “establishment” (such a polite euphemism) has for years cried wolf in order to justify claiming its outsized share of the national budget and foreign aid. India was poised to invade at any moment! The Americans are going to steal our nukes!

I could go on, but really, what would be the point?

[AK84]

:rolleyes:You think that extracts from the *opinion * pages of a newspaper and a blog entry and a statement by a disgruntled journalist is somehow proving the opposite?

[Ibn_Warraq]

I find the idea of war breaking out between Israel and Pakistan about as plausible as war between Israel and Nigeria or Israel and Indonesia.

[Malthus]

@Ibn_Warraq

I find the idea of war breaking out between Israel and Pakistan about as plausible as war between Israel and Nigeria or Israel and Indonesia.

Heh, if those 419 scams are anything to go by, war with Nigeria makes some sense …

[bldysabba]

@AK84

I cannot speak for Iran, but I have never heard any politician or any one in fact in Pakistan blame Israel for anything. Pakistanis generally founded not give two hoots about Israel outside the general, “they are acting wrongly”. And, stop infantalising the whole fucking population.

Emphasis added by me.

@AK84

:rolleyes:You think that extracts from the *opinion * pages of a newspaper and a blog entry and a statement by a disgruntled journalist is somehow proving the opposite?

My post is indeed, and most definitively, proving (at the very least) that you are either unaware of, or misrepresenting, a reasonably large thread of discourse in your country.

You say these are ‘opinions’ and ‘blogs’ and ‘pieces by disgruntled journalists’. The facts - You, a Pakistani, say on an anonymous message board, that you’ve never heard of Israel being blamed for anything in Pakistan. On the other hand, many other Pakistanis, and a bureau head of Reuters, (Who presumably has at least some professional standards. Or maybe, since his life was threatened, he decided to make up what conspiracy theories do the rounds in Pakistan?) are stating in newspapers, that they have heard conspiracy theories about Israel being fairly common. You’re either, like I said, living in a bubble, in a state of denial, or believe that there’s a conspiracy about reporting conspiracy theories in Pakistan. Those latter two options are deliciously ironic. FWIW, I think it’s the first case. When you’re well off in countries like India and Pakistan, you’re almost certainly living in a bubble. I live in one myself.

Also, opinions, blogs, and disgruntled reporters aside, did you miss the bit where the spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban denied they were operatives of the Mossad? Why do you think the TTP would need to deny such a thing if it didn’t figure in the popular discourse?

[newcomer]

@sweat209

Well first of all there has been very high Hostility in the middle east towards Israel and the western civilization for long time and it was only really Egypt keeping an all out war.

This time hostility towards Israel and the western civilization is all time high . It was made clear by Iran that any attack would be ww3 .

Any fighting in Lebanon or even Gaza could trigger ww3 and with people in Egypt and government in Egypt threatening Israel :ocould get Egypt and may be other countries fighting with Israel and thus all out middle east war .

Before in past the US play the game allow Egypt to deal with it:o but if Egypt becomes like Iran look like may go that way the US will have no country in the middle east has friend.

Also remember the middle eat like China don’t look at wars like the western civilization do army to army and short wars.
What has US done wrong to allow this ? Was the US too soft in the middle east ?When Israel pulled out of Lebanon or even Gaza where was UN to sign peace deal so no WMD build up in Lebanon or even Gaza where there be fighting again? Why no UN inspectors to go in every year to make sure no WMD build up part of peace deal .

It seems the middle east wants a all out war dragging the western civilization with it has they keep fighting , support proxy wars , build up of WMD .

Also Keep in mind at one time the US was friend with Iran.

Brilliant and succinct.

[gatorslap]

@Ibn_Warraq

I find the idea of war breaking out between Israel and Pakistan about as plausible as war between Israel and Nigeria or Israel and Indonesia.

Mauritania is just biding their time.

[sweat209]

Well first some members where complaining my post came across too anti- middle east and I was not grasping the problem so that back track to understand the nature of the middle east before we can talk about the start of the thread.
1 There is a lot on the news has of late of middle east having their own major problems and fighting .

Can some one explain on this and what was going on and why.

2. countries like Egypt and Syria where pro US and now may be ant- US and west

Some one explain on this and why.
3. countries like Egypt and Syria radical partying taking over and civil war.

Again I’m not grasping the problem and what is going on and why.
4. Lots on news on this Muslim brotherhood taking hold in many countries in the middle east that is hostility towards Isreal and the west

What is this Muslim brotherhood and why this movement to Muslim brotherhood?

5. When I said Pakistan was hostility towards Isreal and the west I got reply that Pakistan has its own problem and issues in Pakistan .
   Can some one explain and the problem.

CAIRO, Egypt – Supporters and opponents of President Mohammed Morsi clashed Friday in the worst violence since he took office, while he defended a decision to give himself near-absolute power to root out what he called “weevils eating away at the nation of Egypt.”

The edicts by Morsi, which were issued Thursday, have turned months of growing polarization into an open battle between his Muslim Brotherhood and liberals who fear a new dictatorship. Some in the opposition, which has been divided and weakened, were now speaking of a sustained street campaign against the man who nearly five months ago became Egypt’s first freely elected president.

The unrest also underscored the struggle over the direction of Egypt’s turbulent passage nearly two years after a popular uprising toppled Hosni Mubarak’s authoritarian regime. Liberals and secular Egyptians accuse the Brotherhood of monopolizing power, dominating the writing of a new constitution and failing to tackle the country’s chronic economic and security problems.

Some of the problem in Egypt .
Again some members where complaining my post came across too anti- middle east but I think that may be do to not understanding the problems in the middle east and the internal conflict in their own country and misinterpretation of the news articles this past month.