House passes "repeal and replace"

I am of the opinion that countries should not invade one another, and that war is a poor way to resolve differences. I also have some positive feeling for the idea that the government should pay everyone a basic income. What is more, I don’t really feel crime is a good thing.

However I was a soldier, I get up every weekday to go to work to earn money, and I support the existence of police.

Because I realize that my beliefs in this are not in practice applicaple to the world we live in, and that it would lead to suffering if we tried to act as if it was.

I certainly would not pay extra money so people could suffer from my beliefs. Suffering for your beliefs can be a noble thing, going out of your way to make others suffer for your beliefs is where people need to leave the white cowboy hat at home.

So you’d support at Constitutional amendment to achieve federally run UHC?

He already said that above. :wink:

I am answering these out of order, for which I apologize. My assistant running coach was supposed to help but frankly I may have to let him go.

My answer would be: none of you Europeans or Canadians have the precise equivalent of the dual, separate sovereigns we have here. Whether it’s better or worse really depends on what you think government is for, and from whence it derives its power.

Post 96.

Yes, but my point is, that’s cold comfort when a person is drowning in medical debt and watching his family suffer.

I mean, this is the stuff that violent revolt is made of. Surely there must be SOMETHING they can take comfort in besides a hypothetical?

For the people and by the people. Ironically originally formulated by a republican, its become an principle in many countries.

My answer remains: in my view, it’s not a proper exercise of the federal power. But I grant that if you think the federal role includes general welfare being paid health care, then the power exists.

But that bring us back to dough. The federal government equally clearly has the power under Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 to NOT provide health care. And that’s what the House is saying.

First of all, those appealing Bricker’s position with arguments of how much more harm would be visited upon people who would be excluded due to pre-existing conditions or could otherwise not afford insurance or treatment need to understand that Bricker doesn’t give a fuck about anyone. His only position is the ideological one that government shouldn’t provide any services or protections unless he feels like it should, which is at least a consistent argument. It’s selfish and also stupid, but internally consistent in the same way that Ayn Rand’s characters are all free minded and independent, even though they are trapped in facile plots with cardboard opponents living out rapey, overwrought dramas about fake innovation and narcissistic greed presented as misunderstood genius.

Why should government be involved in the health care business? Setting aside any arguments for human compassion or dignity, it makes sense from an economic point of view to not suffer costs of excessive lost time at or inability to work, facilitating the spread of preventable disease, ensuring that children get proper care and nutritional guidance so that they do not suffer avoidable chronic health conditions, et cetera. In terms of “wise policy moves” it makes good pragmatic sense to provide at least a basic level of medical care to everyone even if, as Bricker is, you are ideologically opposed to the idea. For fuck’s sake, the hermit kingdom of Cuba has had substantially lower incidence of severe neonatal problems and infant mortality than the United States since the 1990s. Can the biggest economic and industrial nation in the world not do better than Cuba?

There is also the matter that while fifty or sixty years ago health care was relatively simple–you went to the doctor to get antibiotics for your cough that won’t go away, to the emergency room for a broken bone or stiches, and made an appointment with your mortuary if you had cancer–and what insurance was available was supplementary and largely provided by employee or service organizations for their customers to offset costs, while today the mass of health care options, tests, pharmaceuticals, treatments, and services is so vast and the costs so poorly explicated that there is no way for a consumer to make a credible assessment of cost versus benefit. Hell, most doctors have no idea whatsoever about the costs of pharmaceuticals they prescribe or tests they send patients to, and if asked will refer a patient to billing which, often as not, will not provide a comprehensive listing of costs until the final bill is tallied. The notion that a consumer can control their own health costs in a system that has virtually no transparency is ridiculous to an extreme. And the idea that only bad people need insurance, while good people leave healthy, virtuous lives and therefore rarely require medical treatment is the apex of fucking hypocrisy coming from Congresspeople who are guaranteed acccess to medical insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program.

And this gets to the essential problem of the ironically titled Affordable Care Act: it did absolutely nothing to control or illuminate medical costs, and often ended up costing more with fewer benefits, especially for the people who had the least need for it. The subsidized marketplaces at least provided some degree of universal benefit, albeit often at substantially higher costs for those who without pre-existing conditions, and essentially no controls on the escalation of those costs. Genuine health care reform would hold both medical service providers and insurers to a fair standard of service versus actual costs with a cap on how much administrative costs and profit they could carry as overhead.

For the GOP–at least, everybody outside the Freedom Caucus–this is not an ideological issue even though they pretend that it is. It is an issue that insurers and pharmaceutical companies contributing to PACs and other campaign funding vehicles are pushing. It is a threat to their gravy train of obscured profitability, inefficiency, and waste; and for Trump it is purely a way to show that he’s good at the art of making deals, even though this is pretty much the worst deal he could possibly make short of hand Kim Jong-un a few nuclear weapons to add to his stockpile. It’s probably worth it at this point to give him a few bucks to build his stupid border wall if it would keep him busy playing with Lincoln logs until the end of his term, but of course, for Trump, Bannon, et al, it would just wet their limp dicks for another go around at the American public, just because they can.

Stranger

Sure, but specifically the federal government: how did its sovereign existence appear?

With all due respect, I’m afraid I find that a silly answer, Counsellor. ;).

Canada does have a system of dual and separate sovereigns. In fact the constitutionally entrenched powers of the provinces are more clearly defined than is the case of the states under the 10th Amendment, leading to a Canadian federal government that is arguably weaker than the US federal government. (Eg, no Wickard).

That didn’t prevent the federal and provincial governments from implementing national UHC, each acting within their own authority.

The evidence seems to be that this plan will result in a great many poor and sick people losing their health care. If someone interprets your support of it as your belief that the poor and the sick don’t deserve proper health care and that depriving them of it is a terrific idea – and I don’t see how any other interpretation is possible – what credible response could you provide?

Except that your friends the Republicans are meddling in federal health care every bit as much as Obama’s Democrats ever did – the only difference is they’re putting their own reprehensible ideological spin on it. Moreover, Medicare has been a federal program for a great many years, thoroughly opposed by Republicans at the beginning for much the same reasons that they’re opposing Obamacare now – too socialist, gives too many people health care who should damn well either pay for it themselves or have the good grace to die. But now Medicare is well entrenched and highly valued and it’s not going anywhere. That ship – federal management of health care – sailed a long time ago.

I actually agree with you that a UHC program should ultimately be state-administered, but because of Medicare and many other factors there is a federal role in cost-sharing and establishing standards. The federal government has to be viewed as a collaborative partner in these state initiatives, otherwise “let the states handle it” is just a cop-out synonymous with “I don’t want it” and ensures it will never happen, just like the states that have struggled in vain trying to propose or introduce single-payer.

So, good news and bad news.

The good news is that there might very shortly be an opening in the Bricker’s assistant position, where you get to summarize my beliefs in this thread.

Bad news is that this interview is not going well for you so far.

So, federally mandated healthcare, not okay, but state mandated healthcare, that’s okay?

Bricker, you apparently believe that there’s some inherent intangible value in the government remaining uninvolved. OK, fine, then I won’t take the argument that the system we had in 2009 was terrible, because it’s tough to argue intangibles. Instead, I’ll point out that the system we had in 2009 still included Medicare, Medicaid, the government employee insurance program, the VA, and governmental support of hospital emergency rooms. In short, under that system, there was significant government involvement in health care and coverage. Why, in your view, was that acceptable? And if that was acceptable, then why is the ACA not acceptable?

There’s a number of times he’s used the phrase “unelected judges” when objecting to decisions of the Court.

Since the Constitution established the Court as unelected, that strikes me as considering the Court to be illegitimate.

But your position on what happened appears to be a bit amorphous.

Are you saying you approve of what the House did, because you philosophically oppose using taxes to provide health care to those who otherwise cannot afford it?

Are you saying you approve of what the House did because you believe the federal government never really had the power to implement the ACA in the first place (which, if true, renders all discussion of moral issues moot)?

Are you saying you approve of what the House did for some other reason?

I’m with Bricker. He gets his conservative card back after voting for Hillary. :slight_smile:

I wish the law went further and completely dismantled Obamacare. It is not a function of government in a free society to take money from someone and give it to me just because I need something.

Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, etc. are entitlements. The ACA is different in that it expanded the power of the federal government allowing it to force you to buy something, regardless if you wanted it or not. Today it is health insurance. With no limiting principle tomorrow it could be Trump University diplomas. That is not a power the federal government should have.

Rebelled against the Uk because they didn’t want to pay taxes, signed a union treaty, then had a politics convention in Philadelphia to write a founding document.