How About Making This A Law to Help Marriages

Great Debates
61

I think WB gave up his initial proposal fairly early in this discussion. This has been more of a discussion of exactly how bad a thing divorces are and how we can prevent or alleviate the problems that divorce may cause. Most posters seem to think that the problems for the children are the most urgent.

This debate has a lot of similarities to the debate on abortion. Everyone agrees that we’d like for no one to want or need a divorce, but with varying opinions on when a divorce is acceptable and who must be accountable for the problems it causes. The difference lies in that many of the problem marriages were actually fairly well thought out in advance (unlike the ‘problem’ pregnancies).
Lucky - where do you live, Smalltown, USA? I see lots of people getting married less than a year from meeting (Not the majority of marriages but a significant portion). I also see many problems resulting. I have one friend who got married 6 months into a relationship and has now been happily married for 4 years, but this is the exception in my experience. As far as becoming the talk of the town goes, unless you’re a local celebrity, you’d have to do something a lot more controversial to become the talk of the town anywhere I’VE ever lived (except Scotts Hill, Tennessee in the 70’s population: ~25).

62

I recently got married (9/15/00), 5 months after meeting my wife. We were engaged less than two weeks after meeting. Occasionally you will meet a person who is everything you ever wanted and who feels the same way about you, and there is no reason to wait. I’d be kinda pissed if I was forced to wait longer to make it legal, though we have been living together over 4 months now and nothing has really changed.

You gotta assume some people are going to make mistakes, I don’t think there are any laws that can prevent that. If I was forced to wait a year or so to marry my wife, I would still have been living with her as man and wife that whole time, with all the potential for problems that a ‘real’ marriage has.

63

Man, y’all are nailing me. What part of “forget it” do y’all not understand?

I take back my original post. And no Lucky I don’t know the statistics for “quicky” marriages that end in divorce other that just common sense. And you you read my original post it said “help” not solve the problem but I even take that back. As far as contracts yes I believe if you say I do you should stay marry for life. It is a commitment to one another. And if you can’t make it until death because you are not willing to put the effort in than its simple don’t get married.

And John I can’t believe you comparing marriage to buying a house. Talk about apples and oranges. Your right a house is something you can sell later or borrow against or trade. Now lets look at the marriage vows in sickness and in health for richer or for poorer for better or for worse until “death” do you part. These seem like pretty dang serious vows to me. I sure don’t remember those in my real estate contract on my house. “Divorce” is never even brought up in the vows. Why because it shouldn’t be an option. If you do what you are promising your spouse someone that you love than you wouldn’t get a divorce would you?

Sure it isn’t easy being married. Who said it would be? It is not for everyone but seems like everybody wants to try it. Actually, I think people just like weddings not marriage. Marriage is a wonderful thing but you have to work at it.

I am sorry if a am ranting but I think divorce is like quitting or worse than that it is breaking promises. And if you don’t got you “word”, really, what do you got?

64

>> but I think divorce is like quitting or worse than that it is breaking promises

Yup. I agree. People who have a solid sense of responsibility and committment will likely last in their marriages no matter how long they have known each other while those who are selfish and irresponsible will probably divorce.

I see many people who have the theory that if the marriage lasted it was because you were lucky. I do not think so. I think marriage, like many other things, is what you make of it.

As is being said in another thread, we need to go back to taking responsibility for our actions and not just blame others.

But, think about it, if the main ingredient for a successful marriage is being responsible and keeping your promises… how would making people wait change that? It wouldn’t. They would get married later and just as irresponsibly. (yes, I know you said “forget about it”, this is just rhetorical).

65

Joe Malik: I believe you are neglecting the financial implications of divorce. Instead of one household, after a divorce there must be two households but with the same income. Often new cars must be bought, new insurance sought, new jobs. There is a tremendous cost to divorce, it is not as simple as two room-mates splitting up.

The two separate parents cannot provide the same quality of care that they could before. They cannot spend the same amount of time with their children, since the children must either sleep at one parents household or at anothers. So the children have essentially half the time with each parent that they did before. It is not as simple as two loving parents continuing to provide the same loving care but in two households, that is impossible.

It may very well be that a child is better off with one loving parent than two abusive parents. But two loving parents that share a household is definately better than two loving parents that live separately.

I agree that there are really two kinds of divorce. Childless divorces are a non-issue. Get divorced, stay together, it means nothing to me, you’re all adults.

But there are often children involved. Then it is no longer a private affair, the state must take at least a minimal level of involvement, because we must act to make sure the children’s interests are considered. So we have state ordered child support, state ordered visitation, state ordered restrictions on freedom of movement. But this is neccesary. When children are involved, divorce cannot be handled privately since third parties are involved.

But that doesn’t mean that I am in favor of more restrictive divorce or marriage laws. What I am in favor of is a change in our attitudes towards divorce and marriage and parenthood. I want people to feel comfortable to chew out their friends when they make stupid decisions, not just shrug their shoulders and say that it’s none of my business.

When I was married we made up a poster-sized marriage certificate and had everyone at the ceremony sign it…over 100 people. The idea was that we weren’t just making a commitment to each other, we were also making a commitment to our community and the community was making a commitment to support our marriage. (BTW…my wife came up with this…that’s why I love her so…) A marriage isn’t just between two people. The couple make a commitment to act as a couple to the community, and the community makes a commitment to treat two as a couple.

66

Ah-ha!!

I was waiting to get to this.

Bill, remember there’s a difference between a secular marriage (a legally recognized contract between two people) and a religious one. The vows you mention are no a part of all, or even most marriages, and are not required.

I agree completely that a couple who has a religious ceremony, makes oaths before one another and God, and then breaks those oaths is in a world of hurt.

However, oaths of lifetime loyalty aren’t a part of all weddings. And prenuptial contracts are common–and they do mention divorce.

By and large, the state doesn’t give a rat’s behind about love, vows, or religious beliefs when it comes to marriage. (I know that’s only accurate within certain parameters, but let it slide, willya?)

And ya know what? Of the three couples I’ve known personally who have been married for more than 60 years, only one had a religious wedding. The other two had secular services and vows which did not mention “'til death.” One set didn’t even say “forsaking all others.”

They didn’t make an open lifetime commitment, and still chose to stick together. That’s so cool.

67

I always suspected you were a bastard, John…

:: fleeing with a speed that would make Carl Lewis jealous ::

Yer pal,
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