How advanced does a civilisation need to be before it leaves a permanent record?

Inspired by another thread about how well our own civilisation would last for study by future paleontologists.

The question is as it’s stated in the title, but I suppose a clearer way to ask it would be, What particular inventions and advancements would survive, say, a 60 million year time gap?
And, given I suspect that they will be quite advanced, how sure can we be that some other species hasn’t developed, say, agriculture, before us and been wiped out?

Nothing lasts that long.

All it has to do is act up REALLY BAD, just once, and that goes on its Permanent Record.

Just TRY to get it erased! Not in a million years!

I’m impressed.

Advanced enough to make a stone tool.

At least advanced enough to have an elementary school system.

Given that we have fossils that are hundreds of millions of years old - going all the way back to bacterial colonies - technology and civilization are not really required to leave evidence. The hard thing might be interpreting whether the permanent record indicates civilization or not, but there will be plenty of records left behind.

Quarrying stone was mentioned in an earlier thread on this subject. Carving a whole bunch of rectangular chunks out of a mountainside is going to be visible for a good, long time.

It is ironic that some of the first tools our civilisation made will be among the longest lasting of all our relics. Knapped flint tools will continue to be recognisable as artificial for hundreds of millions of years (in the right circumstances). Other long-lived areifacts will include certain class and ceramic objects. Most metal onjects will become unidentifiable, but some- gold for instance- might perdist in some form, although they could be easily deformed so much as to resemble natural nuggets because they are so soft.

I suspect that no civilisation will everleave a permanent record; planets stars and even whole galaxies eventually evaporate away into unidentifiable dust, or are swallowed by black holes, which evaporate into radiation. It would be difficult to create anything that would last longer than a supermassive black hole, but even those are fleeting events compared to eternity.

The limestone pyramids will stay there as long as they’re not quarried or nuked (or egypt gets 200 days of rain.) Ankor Wat is made of laterite (practically weather-resistant even in tropical settings.) Other relics will presist as long as they’re not intentionally destroyed.

A Mickey Mouse watch. :wink:

I’d assume evidence of large scale mining would still be noticeable.

Some chemicals with very long half lives would still signify we were here. All the nuclear weapons full of U-235 will signify some kind of intelligent life since U-235 occurs in very small concentrations in nature (less than 1%), while in nuclear weapons (90%) or in power plants (5%) the concentration is far higher than you find in nature. The half life of U-235 is 700 million years. Archaeologists looking around in a billion years finding stores of U-235 in concentrations of 50%, isolated from other sources of Uranium, might figure something was up.

My understanding is bronze statues will last at least 10 million years. No idea if they will last far longer than that or not.

The least soluble minerals (at the surface) are oxides, so you could take a leaf from Angkor Wat. The most stable undergound environment are those salt domes.

We’ve been able to find evidence of natural nuclear fission that took place 1.7 billion years ago just by a slightly lower (by only 0.003%) concentration of uranium-235 in ore, so I can easily see this happening. Although, if you have deposits of very high uranium concentrations (from not just bombs, but waste disposal/storage sites) scattered across the globe, one could be mislead to think that uranium naturally occurs like that, although geologists would probably easily recognize it as unnatural.

Also, what about landfills? No doubt they will leave behind deposits that are clearly not natural due to the high concentrations of minerals that normally wouldn’t be found together or in such concentrations. Some of the stuff might even fossilize before it decomposed if they can still be recognizable after decades:

A lunar lander comes to mind.

Considering that we have fossil evidence of soft bodied invertebrates from much longer than 60 million years ago, I think evidence of our freeway overpasses, our motor cars, our knives and forks, and perhaps even our iphones can be expected to survive for much longer than that. I don’t see why the same would not apply to the artifacts - often made of quite durable materials such as stone, ceramic and metal - of much earlier, even quite “primitive”, human cultures.

Twinkies?

No.

Meteorites can and will destroy it.

So what about the 500 or so above ground Atomic tests that took place between 1945-1980? Will that still leave a trace signature that can be easily detected in 60 Million years?

Most evidence of our existence would be gone within 500 years. Some of the larger, better built buildings might last a bit longer, but metal does not do well if there’s noone around to take care of things. Water is unbelievably destructive.

That said, some stone buildings like the pyramids might make it for quite a bit longer. Eventually they would be destroyed by sand and wind, but it might take thousands of years. Mount Rushmore might last longer, because it is carved from granite. In any case, 10,000 years and pretty much everything is absolutely wiped out on Earth. Any evidence would have to be small things somehow conserved away from water, wind, and sand. Maybe the things we’ve squirrelled away in salt mines will last longer…

re: Twinkies: If you want food that really lasts, you should go for honey. If you can keep honey away from water, it might last over 1 million years.

What about stuff away from Earth? Well, our signals will also be pretty much background static after 10,000 years. (Apparently 2 light years is enough distance to make all our signal indistinguishable from background noise). If we shot enough stuff out of our solar system, they should last a long time; although, someone still has to find them. I don’t know about evidence on the moon. What effect does the solar wind have on our stuff on the moon?