Suppose law enforcment has a warrant to do a sneak and peek at someones house who has a big guard dog? How could they acheieve this. Shooting the do would be pointless because it would be a pretty good indicator someone had been in the house.
I also wonder how sneak and peek searches are done… What if the homeowner shoots and kills one of the agents/officers, thinking they are an intruder? Would he/she get charged?
You shot a cop. You will get charged. Maybe you can convince a jury that it was self defense but I doubt it.
Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 =P
I remember a cop on the some TV show talking about having to sneak into a suspect’s house to plant listening devices but trying to get past his vicious guard dogs. He said for a month beforehand, he’d walk up to the fence every day and feed them. Soon enough, he could walk in without any trouble at all.
If the person did not announce themselves as police officers executing a warrant how would a homeowner have any reason to believe the people entering his home are anyone but intruders? Are the “sneak and peekers” in uniform? Much of our legal system depends heavily on “a reasonable mans” perception of a situation. If someone is in my house that does not belong, my first assumption is intruder.
Don’t get me wrong, I am one of the biggest law enforcement defenders around here, but put a homeowner in a situation like that and give him a gun, there is a real good chance someone is gonna get dead, most likely the homeowner who has probably not been charged with a crime at this point, and has no mens rea for cop killing.
It’s kind of been addressed (in regards to mens rea), but in most jurisdictions, simply trespassing with a possibility to intend to break and enter is not enough justification to shoot on sight. There’s gotta be a direct and credible threat to life, limb, or eyesight for a shooting to be justified. Just poking around someone’s home/property isn’t enough to threaten the homeowner with imminent physical danger–a jury would wisely rule the homeowner could retreat to their home, lock the door, and call the police.
Now if that police officer broke into the home and appeared inside, that’s a whole other story. . .
Trapsin’ through the tulips will not equal a .44.
Of course states with castle doctrines are a whole different story, where the homeowner usually has no duty to retreat. I was talking about waking up in the middle of the night and hearing intruders in your home. Of course you’re going to think they’re criminals or burglars (even if they’re doing one of the sneak/peek warrants). I wonder if such a situation has ever occurred?
Alternatively, I’m sure some well-directed pepper spray might do the trick.
no but it will get an ass full of rock salt…
There were several cases recently in Canada, where law enforcement has a basic hostility to the “castle doctrine” and armed citizens.
In Winnipeg, a man heard the commotion and hid in the bathroom when cops broke down the door, so he never saw them. He fired through the door, and they fired back. He hit one cop, the cops hit him and also another cop. Keystone cops all the way - the police in Winnipeg have that reputation to start with. The defence argued that a previous drug dealers’ dispute had resulted in a similar home invason by druggies claiming to be undercover cops. The guy got a lot shorter sentence than the police force wanted. Several pound of marijuana found -hardly a reason for a amssive smash and grab.
In Quebec, some police way out of their jurisdiction raided a drug dealer’s house in the middle of the night. During a confrontation in a dark corridor, shots were fired both ways. A policewoman ended up dead, police bullets went through the bedroom wall about a foot above the head of one of the guy’s children. No explanation why they couldn’t arrest the guy on the road in the morning and then search his house. His was a legally registered firearm, but he plead guilty and got a reduced sentence.
OTOH, about 15 years ago someone robbed an armoured car and killed a guard. The Quebebc police, a gung-ho bunch, thought they had the guys, and apparently shot them when the one took his time opening the door. They turned out to be a bunch of carpetlayers who had switched cars when one died, so the hotel registration’s car license did not match what they were driving. That was the extent of police evidence. They were unarmed (“we tought dey had ze guns”). A couple in bed in the next hotel room had bullets come through the wall just over their heads.
So even in Canada, the police can act like idiots and often do. Still, you shoot at your peril. You will spend time in jail, but nowhere near as much as for a cold-blooded killing.
Nah, that just upsets the dogs and it might make their behaviour change (i.e. they start shying away from all strangers), which’ll make the homeowner suspicious and possibly prompt him to get new dogs. By feeding them regularly, the cop becomes the dogs’ friend and they’ll gladly let him enter the house, and the owner likely won’t know about it until they come to arrest him, the details of which were described by the cop when he demonstrated just how co-opted the dogs had become when the owner expressed disbelief that listening devices had been planted.
If I ever find the clip, I’ll bookmark it.
Having been involved in a few of these things myself, I can tell you this much: Great care is taken to be sure that the house is empty of people before an entry is made. Days or weeks of surveillance would be done in advance to ascertain the target’s habits and routines. Once it is deemed safe the team enters. The target, meanwhile, is kept under surveillance to be sure he doesn’t return home early. If it looks like he is, either he is stalled in some way or the team packs up and returns at a later time to finish the job. We never had to deal with a guard dog, though. I am sure that tranquilizers are available that could handle the situation.
This assumes the dog is outside. What about when thebig mean dog is kept in the house?
You feed 'im through the mail slot.
LOL, there is literally someone home here 24 hours a day 7 days a week … mrAru may leave for work, but either our roomie or I are here. I think the last time everybody was gone was 3 years ago.
Long wait to get the house empty…
Take a truckload of guys, carrying tools, dressed in gas company uniform, knocking on your door and all the other houses in your block, saying “there’s been a report of a gas leak on this block – please evacuate your home immediately while we check for the leak. It will only take 10 minutes or so, but you should leave right now!”. (Notice that they didn’t order you out, but just politely asked.)
You’ll all be standing on the street, talking with your neighbors, while the undercover cops install the listening devices in your house. They can be pretty good about making it seem like an emergency. Even if you’re careful enough to check IDs, they can certainly produce authentic-looking ones.
And that’s legal? It just seems…I don’t know, wrong somehow. What happens if you check up and find out they’re not legit? Also if you discover the device can you remove it?
How common are those, though? I’ve lived in lots of houses, and never had one.
I am sure I’d know my dog was drugged.