How about “I’m extremely fortunate that I can afford to indulge in my desire to continually learn”?
Because that’s what it’s let me do. Electronics, computers, cars, reading, exotic birds, metalwork. If it all burned down, I could take or leave it, but it sure has made me happy. My particular mental makeup would go stir crazy if my whole non-working life had to fit in 1000 sq. Ft. or less.
I’m with Unintentionally Blank (look under the stairs, I’m typing from there!)
We were in a ~1,500 sq ft townhouse in NYC. Two of us, two cats, and two pooches. When it was time to move, we looked a bit out in the country, and for the same amount as a modest step up in Manhattan, we ended up with ~2,800 sq ft, plus a full unfinished basement and an attic you can play tennis in. There’s a acre of perennial gardens out our front door and four more wooded ones keeping the neighbors at bay (eight, if you count the their parcels). It’s shy of a McMansion, but allows us the space for the brood (and now the Dudeling) plus our frequent overnight guests have their own room when they stay.
A key factor in the above is that we work out of here, so having the space and pastorallity of the setting is imperative to our sanity. We don’t shun the office during non-business hours, but it’s great to work in the garden during the summer (in the dirt or on files) or even just downstairs if the feeling is there. I know that stay-at-home parents must laugh at this–after all they spend all day in the same place too, but there it is.
We often think about/daydream of moving back to the city and know full well that much of our nest’s feathers are superfluous. There’s a den with the theater in it and a parlour (where we spend most of our quiet time; now play time with the Dudeling). We’ve been the smaller route before, so know what to expect. It’s not that it’s uncomfortable or problematic in any way (the size of the apartment in DC was about 900 sq ft and we were happy there), it’s that there’s a comfort in the spaciousness.
I’m not interested in what other people need or what they want. If you want a 50000 sq ft house, go for it, dude. But just don’t tell me that’s what I HAVE to have too.
(And why do you care if people judge you for having stuff? I know people judge me for not having enough stuff. As long as they don’t say crap to my face, I’m fine with their opinion. We all have them.)
As for my parents, their overconsumption isn’t exactly none of my business. One day, it will be my job–and the job of my siblings–to do something with that mega-house and all the stuff they’ve accumulated. If I don’t want to deal with my own clutter, why should I be thrilled to deal with someone else’s? And why should I listen to my mother about anything financial when, from my perspective, she’s not putting her money to good use.
She’s not in the best of health, and my father isn’t about to do any Iron Man’s himself. Will I have the right to be just a little pissed off if we, their children, find out that they have no savings because they’ve put every penny into their lovely home–a cookie-cutter number in a subdivision filled with other vinyl-sided brick-facade houses that are underwater or foreclosed on? That instead of downgrading their lives in their golden age and living abundantly in a frugal way (the way their God would probably appreciate more), they went crazy on a cavernous house filled with Walmart furniture, nightly visits to the Golden Corral, and weekend casino trips? Will I get to be angry when they are unable to care for themselves and it will be up to me, my sisters, and/or my brother, to spend our own money to care for them, when they were quite capable of saving enough money during the “good times”. Can I be a little bitter when I hear about other people receiving generous inheritances from their parents’, but there will be nothing for me except for white elephants? Of course I will have the right to those feelings. I will not say any of these things to my parents, of course, because I love them and don’t like getting into arguments with them. And I will shoulder their burdens as I know they would shoulder mine.
But if they want to live with me, they’re going to have to live without a TV, without a walk-in closet, without their own private bathroom, or multiple offices. Or even a dining room table. And if they utter as much as a single complaint, I will do to them as they did to me when I was a little kid and would dare to express an opinion. I will whip out my belt and give them something to really cry about. Pay back is a bitch. 
Note to self: be nice to the Dudeling.
Don’t see anybody pushing you to consume. What I DO see is a lot of passive aggressive judgement from the “less is more and nothing is zen perfection” crowd.
As far as taking care of your parents possessions, we could fall back on the “show a little repect for those that brought you into the world”, heaven forbid they’d temporarily burden your precious lifestyle. (because it WILL be a temporary burden, and you are being less that respectful)
Heck, farm it out, there’s companies that’ll do the dirty work for you…for a cut. Or is the problem that they’re selfishly spending your inheritance?
I’m the youngest of six and I think the house I grew up in until age 11 was about 1200 square feet.
I would say the house needs to be as big as the people living in it want and can afford it to be.
We are a family of four, and we have a 2700 sq. ft house (900 of which is the walk-out basement). It has 3 bedrooms and 3 bathrooms, along with a small office on the 2 main floors. Computers, music and gym in the basement.
Lest you think it is a McMansion, please note that it was built in 1879, and while structurally perfect, it needs major updating. Think wallpaper on top of paneling on top of the old plaster slats. It has loads of charm and character, and we’re working on it one project at a time. Lest you think we’re rich, we have budgeted $200 a month toward the updating at this time.
But - I am a house junky. I love big, unique spaces. Our eventual goal is to refinish the attics, knock down some walls, build a 2 story garage/master suite addition, turn the old, small garage into a solarium, and add a two tier outdoor deck.
By the time this is done, we will have a huge, wonderful, 4 story Victorian with 4 bedrooms, 4 baths, a sitting room/solarium, a library/game room, a wraparound porch, etc. We will also be empty-nesters, with all of this big, beautiful space.
I don’t need this, but I want it. There is nothing wrong with that.
I don’t even watch TV anymore, and I am still bombarded by advertisements pushing me to consume. Beyond that, I have a real estate agent who’s still operating under a party-like-it’s-1999 mentality and won’t stop giving me advice I don’t want. I have a mother who has her own advice about what “nice” things I “need” and a father who just won’t shut up about my 17-year-old car (a car that has given me far less trouble than the series of cars he has shot through the years). So of course you don’t see anyone pushing me. You aren’t with me in real life!
As far as passive-aggressive judgment, I’m not being passive-aggressive. I’m being downright aggressive. I absolutely hate my parents’ overconsumption. Not only is it disgusting to me, but it’s hypocritical. These are people who talk a good game about how black people can’t seem to catch a break in obtaining true “wealth”, but what are they doing? I see them putting a lot on credit cards and refinancing mortages and whining about yet another house repair or car break-down. I don’t see them realizing their “wealth”. Hypocrites. Yes, I’m judgmental. That is not a crime. Judging them negatively on this one aspect of their lives doesn’t mean I don’t love them or that I won’t care for them when things go down. But just as I would expect them to judge me if I were acting irresponsibly, I should be able to do likewise. I’m grown. I’ve got some sense. I can call out their mistakes and learn from them and vow to be better.
Well, isn’t that quaint.
Number one: I didn’t ask to be born. They came knocking on MY door, not the other way around.
Number two: I am extremely respectful to my parents. Much more respectful to me than they were to me, when I was under their care. I would never beat them for expressing an opinion, or conveniently look the other way when it happened. That was a joke I said earlier. Unfortunately, I can’t say the same for my childhood. I am still bitter. I am working on it, but it’s hard.
Number three: heaven forbid that I don’t want to be saddled with responsibilities that are 100% avoidable. Yes, they would be temporary headaches…just like all headaches in life. But why should I be expected to look forward to them? That would be unnatural, to be looking forward to handling someone else’s affairs. Thank goodness I have three good siblings who I know will work with me. I’d probably be stressed out if I were an only child.
I’m all for burning up all their shit and their ugly-ass house too (except for the swimming pool. I like the swimming pool). I don’t care about any inheritance, no matter how much my parents’ talk about the wonders of inter-generational wealth. I’ve always been financially independent from them in my adult years, so I won’t sweat it if my parents decide not to leave behind a largess. I just don’t want my siblings and I to have to deal with the downside of their consumption. If we don’t get the good, why should we be stuck with the bad? We will do it because we have to, but again, I don’t know why I should pretend to be happy about it, like it’s all a part of being a “good” daughter. It’s not. Good parents should see to it that their affairs are all in order as much as possible. Maybe my parents have got everything in place and I’m just worrying all for nothing. I have a horrible feeling that they don’t, though.
Perhaps I can take advantage of being the family cuckoo and feign cluelessness about everything. But that would be a crappy thing to do. No, I will hold up my end when the time comes. I’m going to cuss all the way, though.
I don’t literally mean “if we’re not spending the average percentage people spend on housing per year we need to trade up”, but I really don’t think many people are going to start living in as little as they could get by with. Certainly there are many more people that could do with a smaller house and setting aside money for their kids college tuition; I had a friend whose parents owned a 3500sq foot home, belonged to the country club and wore Gucci but come college time didn’t have a red cent to give their kid. But I don’t think people should trade down from their double sinks or one bathroom a person setup if it makes them happy and they can actually afford it.
I actually feel I do need a detached house as soon as I can afford it; living in a building with shared walls that isn’t explicitly nonsmoking means we share up to 60% of our air and I’m breathing in garbage. Obviously it’s all in how we define our needs; I can and have subsisted in a few hundred square feet and shared a single bathroom with 5 people without a dishwasher with a ceiling that fell in from water damage next to a loud bar with trashy patrons who screamed outside my window. Maybe it built character in some small way, but I’d rather not live like that ever again. Paying money to provide for a low stress life in an environment that meets your “needs” is no great sin.
uh, monstro, you seem…angry, dude. And that’s coming from a lady who has quite a bit of anger herself. You didn’t ask to be born? C’mon now. We’re sorry you’re dealing with aging parents and an out of touch real estate agent but all of that doesn’t equate with “everyone is overconsuming” and “why can’t more people want a sub 1000 sq foot house?”
When I lived in Tokyo, I had a “nice” 6 mat room. 17.83 sm or about 190 square feet. I say nice because it was a nice one with it’s own unit bath, hot plate and ultra mini fridge.
After all these years of living in cracker boxes, we’re building a dream house of 4,000 sf. Which, I personally think is at least 1,000 sf too much for a family of 5 but if that’s the price to pay for uprooting my family from China to the US, then it’s a cheap at twice the price.
I remember arguing with a realtor back in the early 1990’s. We looked at our income and our outgo and reviewed our wants and needs. We decided upon what we figured we could afford. The realtor did her calculating and decided we could afford a much bigger mortgage. We kept saying no. I think she kept seeing her commission being smaller if we bought the smaller house. We ended up dumping her and finding another realtor. (No commission!) We bought the house we figured we could afford - and I promptly lost my job. Things turned out OK, but there was a lot of stress for a while. There would have been a lot more stress with a higher mortgage.
We (boyfriend, cat, and I) live in about a 600 sq ft apartment, I think (I’m not sure of the exact measurements, maybe a little less than that) and we do feel ever-so-slightly cramped. If we had just one extra room, or a slightly larger kitchen, everything would be perfect. Oh, and a wee garden.
My parents’ apartment is about 1100 sq ft, which is pretty standard in Korea for a family with 2 kids (a luxury apartment might be around 1700-1800 sq ft). Now that my brother and I no longer live with them, they’ve been talking about moving somewhere smaller, but with a garden (hard to find in the city; they’d have to move further away from Seoul).
I’m not a dude. I’m a lady too.
I didn’t say “everyone is overconsuming”. People in this thread are being a little defensive, I think. If you can afford your living space, great for you. If you don’t mind having empty rooms that you have to pay someone else to clean, that’s also fine. I just don’t understand it, that’s all. And I don’t know why that seems to be the model everyone is still operating under, even though the current economic crisis has shown us the horrible downside of “supersizing” our lifestyles.
I just wish the economy was more balanced. A single person or couple who wants the benefits of a detached house shouldn’t have to risk having “too much house”. But right now, there aren’t too many options for them. And it seems to me (and this is just my “angry” opinion) that big houses are kinda forcing people to buy more stuff, just so that they don’t seem so empty. That’s just wrong.
My parents love TV. They have a TV in their room. A giant flatscreen TV in the living room. And a big TV upstairs in the “bonus” room upstairs. Whenever I step into the house on my first day of visiting during the holidays, without fail, all the TVs are on simultaneously, the blaring dissonance bouncing off the walls in a nauseauting way (I’m growing sensitive to unpleasant noises as I get older, I think). And get this: almost always no one is at home. So unused spaces are being filled not only stuff, but loud, energy-sucking stuff. Home sweet home.
It’s not my business what people do with their belongings or their money. But ya know, when people start ranting about the price of oil or how high the cost the food is or how the big corporations are ruining the environment, I want to ask them just how many TVs they have and if they ever leave them on for the benefit of ghosts. The big corporations are getting away with murder, yeah, but most Americans are doing a good job at getting in their jabs too. I’m not too stupid to see how I’m also a part of the problem. But at least I’m trying to do better.
Yech! From the master bedroom to the bathroom you go through the kitchen :smack:, through the reception room (living room) and down the hall past the front door. :eek: I realize that they carved this space from a pre-existing building, but it is a horrible floor plan.
Everyone isn’t overconsuming, but a hell of a lot of us North Americans are. I don’t think there’s a lot of room for debate on that, is there?
I currently live with two others in a 1,012-sq ft 3/2 with a 300-sq ft garage in addition. The way the house is set up, one bedroom and a bathroom can be closed off from the common areas on one side, and the other two and bathroom can be closed off on the other side. Before my brother moved home temporarily, I lived in the side with the two bedrooms and bath, using one as a living room and the other with the bath attached as my bedroom. That little suite is about 260 sq ft, and I felt it was just about perfect. Just add a small kitchen on, bringing it to about 320 sq ft, and I’d be in heaven.
I’m now living in the room I used to use as a living room with a bed in it, and while it’s cramped I make it work. The rest of the house may as well not be there, because other than an occasional foray into the kitchen for food or the garage for laundry, I just don’t use it. Everything I own fits well with room left over in my suite over here and that’s how I like it.
My mother, OTOH, feels this house needs to be at least 3, preferably 4, times its current size. I think she’s crazy.
This reminds me of a question I have: When they give the square footage in a house listing, does that normally include the basement?
I’ve lived in some mind-boggling small apartments. The strange thing is, even when my apartment is teeny-tiny, I still end up spending most of my time in a single room. I lived in an apartment that had two rooms the size of a queen bed and one the size of two and a half queen beds. The “big” room became home, and I swear spent no more than a few hours total in the other rooms.
I think it’s all about layout. A small house can be very comfortable if all of the rooms have adequate storage, good traffic flow, enough light and heating/cooling to make it comfortable. But I’ve rarely lived in a small house where all the spaces were truly pleasant and useful places to be.
I think there are two kinds of people who are just never going to see the other’s side- those who are happy to use public spaces (libraries, gyms, parks, etc.) and thus don’t see the need to create these things in their houses, and those that prefer private spaces and want to create these things in their houses.
The apartment I am in in Kansas City is 21’ x 17’ or 375 sq feet, and has space for a living room/office, full kitchen, bedroom and bath with roomy shower stall with a heated tile floor. I designed it and while it is hard to entertain more than two guests with one office chair and a loveseat, I’ve never needed to entertain more than one guest at a time.
I have a nice, roomy 3 bedroom apartment in Chicago, but the vast majority of the space goes utterly to waste.
Sort of like mrAru and I decided that we would spend a max of $100 000 on the residence. The real estate agent we picked had told us that we were pre-authorized for $250 000, but was perfectly fine with us setting the budget at 100K, and found us 6 or 7 properties to look at in that range that were perfectly fine. The original 250K was predicated on my job in addition to his navy career, but we opted to go with just what we could afford on navy pay, which was perfect because I had 3 jobs outsourced on me in the 15 years he was still navy after we bought the place. If we had gone for the 250K houses, we would have lost it at some point in time while I was out of work. There were times that adding in the car loan we came very close to having to decide food or car in a particular 3 year stretch of job hunting. People don’t realize they need to add in insurance, property taxes, car insurance, taxes and registration on the car, clothing, job hunting expenses or work related expenses, food, entertainment … one serious car problem [like a blown transmission] can totally fuck your finances for several months.
