From last week’s LA Times:
Heh, I have this vision of Kerry, shoulders slumped, slinking away, shaking his fist in anger and saying, ‘And I would have gotten away with it, if it weren’t for you meddling Christians!’
How many times we got to tell you? Jimson Weed is not a salad ingredient!
I guess my post, in which I opined that voters chose perceived “values” over other factors, was too reasonable to be commented on.
As further evidence for this, voters on the myriad constitutional initiatives in Florida overwhelmingly voted a Reform-Party style populism, emphasizing both “morals”, sticking it to the Man, and economic populism.
They passed initiatives to:
– Increase parental notices in case of abortion
– Increase the minimum wage
– Set up a database of doctors with malpractice claims
– Implement fee % caps for percentage-based lawsuits
among others.
It amazes me that there isn’t a viable populist party in America, given that it was stone cold obvious to me which way Floridians would vote on the ballot initiatives.*
But as it stands now, most people need to make a choice between the lesser of two evils, and they chose conservative social politics over sensible foreign policy and budgetary responsiblity.
*not that I’m happy with that, because while a united populist party would probably have a better fiscal impact on the future of the country, it would dominate the elections even more than the Republicans and so would be able to better implement social conservatism.
Hell, the NRA is taking full credit for this one! They say they spent more on this election than any other, cause they were sure Kerry was just a pawn of Ted Antianygun Kennedy and company. They concentrated their ads on those states where they felt it would make a difference. Looks like it made a difference!
The sad fact is that the catch one of you would take a clear and intelligence policy position and a nuanced explantion of the current political climate.
To do that means losing any chance of a vote from 12-20 dumbfuck fundies.
The sadder fact is that the left wing, knowing this to be true, aims careful and true and does it anyway, cementing the vote of the middle income, high rationality demographic, from coast to shining coast.
Absolutely agreed.
In only one election since the advent of modern media (the early 1930’s, with the rise of radio) has the dour, cynical candidate beaten out the happy, optimistic candidate (1968, Nixon vs. Humphrey).
The balancing act that a challenger has to maintain is that it’s still good to be an American and it’s going to be better to be an American under your leadership. Even when the country was undergoing the Great Depression, FDR stayed the Happy Warrior while castigating Hoover. Kennedy vs. Nixon, Carter vs. Ford, Reagan vs. Carter, Clinton vs. Bush- in all of these cases, the challenger maintained a friendly, happy, feel-good atmosphere to their candidacy while still convincing Americans that the situation was bad enough to need a change in leadership.
Kerry didn’t do that. The main slogan at the campaign was exactly the opposite of that kind of attitude. “Help is on the way” is not the slogan of a candidate who believes that America is in a good place but can be better; it’s the slogan of a candidate who believes that things in America are fundamentally bad, and have to be fixed. The union slogan I saw on bumper stickers in this area reaffirmed that- “Kerry and Unions- we can make America work again.”
Think about it- who was Kerry going to win over with this kind of attitude? People who already believed that America had serious problems weren’t going to vote for Bush. Kerry needed to connect with the people who thought that America was doing all right, but that Bush wasn’t the kind of leader we needed. But by creating the atmosphere that there is something wrong and/or flawed in America, Kerry rallyed those who would support him anyways while alienating too many of the moderates to be able to win.
I’d say “feelgood” was the last thing the Neoconservatives appealed to, actually. I’d suggest that pushing fear of from an external enemy was why Bush won.
I’d say it is both - creation of an enemy and conflict, then optimism regarding the fight against it.
C’mon, Bricker, this is the Internet. Very few stupid people access the Internet to discuss political issues. Very few stupid people access it at all. So no stupid people are being offended here.
I think YOU are being obtuse here. You are, after all, on the Internet.
Thank you for the stats but I’m afraid I don’t see how to apply them. What I really need to compare is the turnout of potential pro-Bush voters with the turnout of potential anti-Bush voters. It seems likely that John Mace is on the right track when he talked of the difficulty of proving my idea. Thanks anyway.
Well, before I go down this path – the originator of this sentiment has now disclaimed it - it was a joke, it appears, not a real commentary.
Are you advancing it as true, but pointing out that the safety of the Internet as a medium for mostly smart folks means that it will be unlikely to have a negative effect?
It annoyed you, reducing your support from vanishingly small to vanishingly smaller. Whoop-de-fuck-a-doo.
Please, give it up. Even if any one of us or we collectively thought that whole 51% was stupid, dellusional, or whatever else, it doesn’t matter. We’re just nerds posting on a message board. We don’t represent the Democratic Party or the Left.
For what it is worth, there are people on both sides who are stupid. I guess from my position, I just can’t comprehend why anyone other than a stupid, dellusional biggot would vote for Bush… but then, that is the point of this thread.
Speaking of, let’s try to get it back on topic.
I think a lot of it had to do with taxes. Bush sacrificed the long term economy of this country for short term political gain, and it worked. What will be interesting now will be to see if he actually sticks to it once the numbers start getting worse.
And yet surely you must know that quite a few people who voted for him are NOT stupid, dillusional biggots. Has this prompted you to recheck the assumptions you made about Bush’s position being, on the whole, sutpid and bigotted? If not, it would appear that you are suffering from cognitive dissonance-- not uncommon among the Bushwhackers of this forum.
But your controversial statement is on topic. There seems to be an underlying assumption by many on this board that something MUST be wrong with people if Bush won more votes than Kerry. Otherwise, why not just go wtih the more parsimonious explanation that most voters simply agreed with his positions on a majority of the issues
shrugs I guess there’s something wrong with me, then. I just can’t see how a lying, greedy, corrupt neocon biggot has any appeal whatsoever to anyone intelligent.
I think we’ve made clear that our position is that Bush won because Kerry lost.
All you need to see the appeal are two things:
(1) Having truckloads of money poured into your pocket by right-wing think-tanks, no-bid government contracts, and other such trinkets,
and
(2) A total absence of any conscience whatsoever.
Its all about 9/11. 9/11 was manna from heaven for the Pubbies. If you will recall, GeeDubya’s approval rating was pretty much luke warm, he was halfway between the Shrub and the Shrug.
9/11 transformed him as a marketable product. All he had to do was walk around and mouth stern platitudes and the occassional lachrymose tribute to the various heroes, and shazaam! The Leader. Barney Fife could have done it as well, with similar results. Had it been Al Gore, the only difference would have been in which party had the advantage in exploiting it.
But it fell to the Pubbies, and they were on it like a starving dog on a pork chop. They have exploited 9/11 greedily, shamelessly and ceaselessly. The nearly wore out thier hands applauding the transformation. And it worked, it almost always does, GeeDubya’s approval went straight through the roof. It todays atmosphere, we could almost forget that, but it was true.
Now, one thing about people: they’ll admit to being short, they’ll admit to being clumsy, but they hate to admit being wrong. (I know, I’ve been force to change my mind, and both times were a trial and a vexation.) Especially when it involves themes like patriotism and Supporting Our Heroes. A public figure who can armor himself in such is as nearly bulletproof as Superman.
If GeeDubya hadn’t embarked on a reckless and pointless military adventure, his ratings would probably still be way up there. The nature of this debacle has been clear for better than a year now, but it takes folks a long time to come around. Americans formed a visceral attachment to GeeDubya in those days, the fact that it is entirely undeserved really has no bearing. (If it had happened to Bill Clinton, he would be President for Life by now…)
Now that has been slowly but surely ground away by truth. But slowly, slowly, grinding exceeding fine. If the election were six months later, he might very well have lost, his approval is headed south with a deliberate pace.
The people of America aren’t stupid, probably at least as bright as any other false generalization. But we are human, and humans don’t like having to change their minds. They don’t like the man who tells them that they have to change thier minds. And even when they do change their minds, they’re a long time forgiving the man who made them do it.
Six months from now, a whole bunch of people who voted for Bush will probably being denying that they did. Probably a similar bunch as the people who swear they didn’t want to vote for him, but Kerry was utterly repellent, they had no option. (He may just be a big ol’ buck-toothed Boy Scout but a threat to the Republic…get real.)
So that’s why. GeeDubyas armor is rusting away, but it was still enough to stop a bullet. Just barely, but it did.
But rust never sleeps.
Well, I think you’re right, and the facts bear you out (assuming we can take polls as facts).
But what comes next, for those on the Left? Simply reacting to events as they unfold is wearing on me already. Is it the impatience of youth (I flatter myself here), or do we badly need a pro-active strategy? Am I wrong about that?
Your remark about Goldwater caught my attention. My American Uncle was a Goldwater fan. Died before he could “get better”. But I still have his copy of “Conscience of a Conservative”. Meant something to me. Could you tell how you were “cured”? Is it something we can hope to use as a prototype for a vaccine (of sorts) in future, or are we still in the “ordering the coffee machine for the lab” stage?
(If it’s too personal, then forget it, but I’d really, really be interested. Please! I’ll be good after that, I swear! My tummy hurts and I can’t go back to sleep. Please Uncle 'luc!!! )
Sex, drugs, and rock and roll. In a nutshell.